Help understanding Kineticist? :(


Rules Questions


Does anyone know of a guide or FAQ for the kineticist? I'm having some problems understanding how the infusion's levels factor into the class.

Assuming no guide or FAQ already exists, does anyone know the answer to these questions?

1) When you apply an Infusion Wild Talent to a kinetic blast, can that IWT *only* be applied to the elements listed in the "Element" section? Or only to the "associated blasts" section?
2) What do the "Associated blasts" even indicate in terms of the Infusion Wild Talent that lists them?

Thank you!


http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2su6f?Mastering-the-Elements-N-Jollys-guide-to- the

This. N. Jolly did an amazing guide I am still proud to have helped a bit with, and I'll get you a more specific answer in a little bit after I get home.


This guide has a lot of information, but, sadly, does not seem to answer my questions. :( Specific answers would be much appreciated!


Obviously no guide specify that because it is pretty obvious:

YES.

You can only apply an infusion to the kinetic blasts listed in the infusion description.

Sometimes Pathfinder (and especially PFS more restrictive rulings) feels a bit silly with its restrictions on what can or cannot be done...sometimes the attempt of giving a "pseudo-univocal ruling" or "pseudo-balancing" lead to all kind of silly restrictions and interpretations that simply ruin the fun.

( Think just about the Unchained Rogue "restrictive" talent list ruling: UR is meant to be stronger than the "base" Rogue, because the base Rogue proven itself "weaker" than other classes. Attempts to "balance" them are pretty silly and non-sensical: One is *meant* to be stronger than the other as the other is not on par with other classes. Then they came out with a pseudo-balancing by limiting the talents can be acquired for it, which make all kind of interesting "builds" unfeasible...and in my opinion often that is also because of the "sloppy" way in which the rulings are applied [i.e., strangely Paizo only writes in clear terms that hardcover rogue talent are available for UR, while splat-book material gets ignored...which in my opinion is just a "sloppy" ruling].)

However what is written in this case seems to me pretty obvious:

If the blast is written, you can use the infusion with it. If the blast is not written, you cannot.

Apart from that you can "house rule"...
Skarm


The Level of an Infusion or Wild Talent functions as a Spell Level. You need to have a Kineticist level double the Talent's level to take it. Though the level is important for the Save DC of a Wild Talent, Save DCs for Infusions are based off of your Kinetic Blast's instead.

Associated Blasts are the Blasts that the Infusion may be applied to, while Element indicates one of the Elements you need to possess in order to take it.


Skarm wrote:

Obviously no guide specify that because it is pretty obvious:

YES.

You can only apply an infusion to the kinetic blasts listed in the infusion description.

I'm hopeful that the lack of readable tone due to text rather than face means you didn't say this rudely, but, man, it really came off as extremely condescending and rude. :( Regardless, I'll interpret it as simply helpful. Thank you for the information. I appreciate it. I would also disagree and state that it is not, obvious; since there is an "element" section *and* an "associated blast" section, two sections that have a considerable degree of overlap, the exact purpose of either section becomes unclear.

@LeMoineNoir Thanks a ton. That's very helpful!
Would you be willing to answer a followup question? That description of the categories leaves me confused as to how someone would take some of these abilities. Take the Chain infusion, for example:

Spoiler:
Chain

Element air; Type form infusion; Level 5; Burn 3

Associated Blasts electric

Saving Throw none

Your electric blast leaps from target to target. When you hit a target with your infused blast, you can attempt a ranged touch attack against an additional target that is within 30 feet of the first. Each additional attack originates from the previous target, which could alter cover and other conditions. Each additional target takes 1d6 fewer points of damage than the last (for example, 3d6 becomes 2d6), and you can't chain the blast back to a previous target. You can continue chaining your blasts until a blast misses or fails to deal damage, or until your blast is reduced to a single damage die.

Chain has an element of air but an associated blast of electric. Does that mean you need to have taken both the air blast and electric blasts (and thus be 7th level or higher), but that this infusion can only be used with the electric blast, and NOT the air blast?


You need to have the air element and use the electric blast from that element.


No no, the element is air but the blast is electric. You may take it if you have the electric blast and may only use it with the electric blast. The air description is only because electric blast comes with the air element, I still feel like it should have been air element and wind blast to avoid using the same word in two places...

This is a copy/paste from the thread around the guide, which was largely well accepted as a good way to describe burn to newcomers. I know you didn't ask, but it's the most often confused part of the class.

Order of operations for burn is complex but manageable.
(Form cost + substance cost) - (infusion specialization) = basic blast cost.

(All meta kinesis costs if applicable) - (1 if you have meta kinetic mastery on one of the chosen metakinesis) = Meta cost.

(Cost of composite blast if applicable + cost of aetheric or gravitic boost if applicable) - (composite specialization) = composite cost.

(Basic blast cost) + (meta cost) +(composite cost) = Blast Cost

(Blast cost) - (gathered power + internal buffer used) = Burn Cost

At no point can any number be less than 0, or it just defaults to 0.
Burn cost must be less than the amount of burn you can accept per round to use the blast.
Some infusions offer you the chance to "accept 1 additional point of burn to...", this cannot be reduced except by internal buffer.
Some infusions say "increase the cost of this infusion by...", this is applied during step 1 to the cost of the infusion before infusion specialization is substracted.

If the burn cost of the ability is a number greater than 0, you take that amount of burn, and will take burn damage. You also trigger any effects which state "when you accept burn from this element" such as your elemental defense.

This then counts against your total burn taken for the round (which might decide for you whether or not you can use the "accept 1 additional point of burn to..." abilities) and generally means you've managed to blow something up good.


Ahh, I understand, now. Thanks a ton. :)

Anyone know what happens if you fail a concentration check while gathering power and that puts you over your burn maximum?


You take the appropriate non-lethal damage, advance your burn to the correct number. Max burn doesn't exist, it's max voluntary burn. You can't -willingly- accept more than a certain amount, but it keeps doing the same things if you're pushed past your limit.


Awesome, thanks, Shiroi. :)

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