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Probably the best option is to ask in the CoTCT AP thread. I have the 3.5 edition of the adventure, and it don't refer to a spell, so the changes default to step 2 of the monster advancement rules.
+8 str, -2 dex, +4 con, +2 natural AC, -1 AC/attack, +1 CMB/CMD, -2 fly, -4 stealth, and obviously, 1 size larger.
As the final effect is a permanent*, non magic change, he can be the subject of size changing magic or polymorph spells that change size without problems. That mean that it is possible to use reduce person to allow him to navigate dungeons with ease.
The fun part is that he will get the effects of that spell: "This decrease changes the creature's size category to the next smaller one. The target gains a +2 size bonus to Dexterity, a –2 size penalty to Strength (to a minimum of 1), and a +1 bonus on attack rolls and AC due to its reduced size." So he will keep most of the benefits of being large while being medium and able to use normal equipment. Well worth the 2,500 gp + spell service fee (minimum of 450 gp) for a 9th level permanency.
To avoid problems with Dispel it would be worth it to pay for a permanency cast at an higher CL.
*Permanent" as in "last forever", not as in a permanent spell. It is a instantaneous effect and not subject to dispelling.
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^^ i'm playing the archetype crossblooded (aberrant/abyssal), so i can up to huge if i want to. thx anywayBloodrager ... ouch.
I don't want to know what will be his final strength.
Enlarge person is way less good than increasing by a size category. But enlarging will cancel reduce person, so that idea don't work so well. The cost of the large magical equipment is a bit annoying.
The Mountain Man: The character grows one size category, gaining all the benefits and penalties of increased size. His equipment does not increase in size.
"all the benefits and penalties of increased size...
"All" is a very strong word.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think you could make good arguments for either table.
However, I would lean toward the Polymorph table not the Monster Advancement table for two reasons.
1) The Polymorph table is the only one used by game effects. Everything else that a character in the game does that changes size uses that table. The Monster Advancement table is only used by a GM as a tool to create CR appropriate monsters, nothing that acts from inside the world will use it.
2) The Polymorph table is more balanced.
That’s not really the “monster advancement table” though. It’s just labeled “size changes”. The table immediately after it applies to any form of size changing, so there’s no reason for the size table to not apply as well.
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That’s not really the “monster advancement table” though. It’s just labeled “size changes”. The table immediately after it applies to any form of size changing, so there’s no reason for the size table to not apply as well.
Those are the same effect you apply when the size of your animal companion increase. And those are the modifiers when your actual, real size increase.
The polymorph magical effects instead have "If a polymorph spell causes you to change size, apply the size modifiers appropriately, changing your armor class, attack bonus, Combat Maneuver Bonus, and Stealth skill modifiers. Your ability scores are not modified by this change unless noted by the spell.", a totally different effect.
The mountain man from the harrow deck of many things isn't a polymorph effect. It is an instantaneous effect that makes you grow to the next size with all the consequences, positive and negative.
I'm not sure if you understood, at lv 4, an abyssal bloodrager gain demonic bulk and grow one size when he enters a rage (like enlarge), i'm not talking about a permanent enlarge ^^Enlarge person is way less good than increasing by a size category. But enlarging will cancel reduce person, so that idea don't work so well. The cost of the large magical equipment is a bit annoying.^^ i'm playing the archetype crossblooded (aberrant/abyssal), so i can up to huge if i want to. thx anywayBloodrager ... ouch.
I don't want to know what will be his final strength.
It is all about the trick of using permanence with reduce self to be able to use your old medium size equipment without the need of buying a set of large sized weapons and armor.
But as soon as you use the Demonic Bulk (Su) ability you are under the effect of an enlarge self magic, that counter and cancel the permanent reduce self.A pity as the players are at a point where they have a deadline and getting new weapons and armor take time.
It is labeled size changes in the monster advancement section, thus it is for how to advance a monster by changing its size.
But the table isn't labeled monster advancement. And the table immediately after size changes, in the same section, lists changes that clearly apply to all creatures when they change size.
PCs aren't mosnters...
Debatable.
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Consider that if you rule it a polymorph effect them the target is under a permanent polymorph effect and is immune to further polymorph. And you suffer from issues like, “While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. ”
Polymorph is a bad fit for this effect.
But if we are adding “all” of the effects, then there’s no reason to not apply both tables.
Were the decision mine, speaking as a DM of a home game, where I DID drop both a level 1, and a level 9 Module, that contain close ties with the Deck itself, AND as someone who as a player, back in 3.5 had an experience with the Deck of Many Things, that "broke the game" by making a really enjoyable adventure less fun, as the wizard gained 4 levels, shooting from the early teens, to "Hey, I have 9th level spells!"
I would be very unlikely to pick an option that gave a +8 strength bonus when there's a very solid +2 option available, with a reasonable basis for the ruling.
On the flip side, I play with a couple actual Lawyers, as well as a couple teenagers, and a handful of other adults, and am more than willing to let them make an argument for something non RAW OR RAI.
My final call would be based on: Would this change break the game? Would it make the game more fun? Would a player suddenly go from "I'm not going to melee, as I'll never hit anything" to "Hey, this is fun!" or would it be a "I hit on a 3!" to "I hit on a 2, and kill with minimum damage"
A 1/2 orc Bloodrager? I'd likely err on the lower end, but party composition might factor in. A front liner with 'cursed dice'? More likely than someone who's already crit happy.
This is my personal opinion, based on my personal games and experience.
Your mileage may vary.
A +8 to strength is only 4 to 6 more damage to hit. Not that big a deal at higher levels. The +4 to hit is the only concern. But you have to consider the huge risk the character takes in drawing a card in the first place. Sure the fighter could get a big boost but he is much more likely to get something unhelpful or even harmful.
Suffice it to say that the rules do not address this particular situation nor nonspecific instantaneous size increases in general. Use whichever system makes sense for you.