Kineticist and subtlety...


Rules Questions


Hi all,
I was wondering:

A kineticist (i.e., aether kineticist) can act in a subtle way?
I mean basic telekinesis and basic pyrokinesis could be used in a way that opponents can't notice the character is using them?

Apparently psychic spellcasters give no outward signs of their magic usage, but I was wondering if, apart from gather power (which is unsubtle), kineticist could do the same...
Skarm


I feel like direct offense spells should probably be identifiable, you shouldn't really be able to stand in a crowd and set the minister on fire without any clues that you were the one to kill him. On the other hand, aether especially only functions usefully with some powers if you can do so without being caught (telekinesis to pickpocket anyone?).

With that in mind, if it would break invisibility you must show outward signs of casting and effort. If it would not break invisibility, you may be more discrete, at most requiring a slight of hand check to hide your involvement. That's how I'd rule it in game, despite a lack of RAW that I'm aware of to fall back on.


My take:

Spell like abilities have no verbal, somatic, material or any other sort of components. A kineticists has to aim the blast with a limb, so I assume they're pointing at the target, but they should be able to do so under a cloak or disguise it with a slight of hand roll. The energy is always sizable, and projects from you I think, so it's probably pretty obvious. A telekineticist's non-attacking TK abilities don't include the sizable energy description, so they aren't implied to be obvious. The TKs attacks are also using nearby objects, so it may not be as obvious depending on the interpretation of "near by". The blast itself would be obvious, but whether or not it's point of origin would appear to be you or the object is unclear.

Questions we don't have a official rules answers for:
1. Can you disguise aiming kineticist basic blasts.
2. Is the sizeable mass of energy visible, aether seems less likely to be visible so is this a case by case basis.
3. Do kinetic blasts project from the user.
4. Do aether kinetic blasts project from the user or the object.
5. What is the range of "nearby" for objects used in the aether kineticist basic blast.


I believe the question of "what is nearby" was answered in Mark Seifter's ask thread, with the answer being "within range of the ability in question". So without the extended range infusion, most of the TK abilities are limited to 30 feet.

Also, I'm fairly certain that for blasting with TK stuff, you bring the object in front of you and then hurl it, since you still determine range and cover and such from your square.

This is my opinion, but I don't think Aether should be visible unless you can see invisible/ethereal things. This is slightly backed up by the Spying Touchsight and Telekinetic Invisibility talents. So if you threw a rock at someone with a TK blast, it would just look like a rock flying by unless you could somehow see the strands of Aether wound about it.


Spell Manifestation FAQ

Spell-like abilities, like spells, are flashy and easily noticeable regardless of components. Paizo really, really does not like subtle magic.

If they can't see you, though, the effect of the ability certainly could look like a non-magical phenomenon, depending on the ability (like the throw rock above).


Kristal Moonhand wrote:

I believe the question of "what is nearby" was answered in Mark Seifter's ask thread, with the answer being "within range of the ability in question". So without the extended range infusion, most of the TK abilities are limited to 30 feet.

Also, I'm fairly certain that for blasting with TK stuff, you bring the object in front of you and then hurl it, since you still determine range and cover and such from your square.

That interpretation does make foe throw much nicer, being able to chuck your enemy up to twice the range the ability normally has is a pretty good deal. This does mean that the foe is being brought into your square before being thrown out of it which makes their forced movement a more convenient additional benefit than if your first target merely moved to the second target.

My initial impression was that the range of the blast was split between the distance to the weapon and the distance from the weapon to the target with cover being determined from the weapon to the target. The distance is shorter, but the ability to shoot around corners is nice.

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