Lvl 1 Commoner Ghost CR?

[L. A. DuBois]

Pretty straight-forward question. What would a level 1 commoner ghost's CR be? And do you think its effective CR might actually be a bit lower than whatever its RAW CR is?

[dragonhunterq]

RAW CR2
Your problem is that at levels 1-3 incorporeal creatures are often more lethal than there CR would suggest. Flying creatures can be problematic (admittedly less so). The combination may be more than some parties can handle.

There are a couple of abilities that low level parties just can't handle, or can but with extreme difficulty.
draining touch would be crippling - ability drain at low levels is difficult and/or expensive to heal.

corrupting gaze is not HD dependent and is a lot of damage.

I would be very cautious of reducing the 'effective CR'.

[Selvaxri]

at low levels, the party won't have magic weapons, the wizards won't have many Magic Weapons prepared if any at all, nor will the paladin have his Smite ability.
An incorporeal ghost will be nigh impossible for them to kill, unless you provide them with the utensils to fight an incorporeal creature.

[Asmodeus' Advocate]

Selvaxri wrote:

at low levels, the party won't have magic weapons, the wizards won't have many Magic Weapons prepared if any at all, nor will the paladin have his Smite ability.

Wait, why can't the paladin smite?

dragonhunterq[/quote wrote:

There are a couple of abilities that low level parties just can't handle, or can but with extreme difficulty.

draining touch would be crippling - ability drain at low levels is difficult and/or expensive to heal.

corrupting gaze is not HD dependent and is a lot of damage.

Ghosts only get one ability for every three CR they have, and your first ability has to be corrupting touch. (which does 2d6 at this CR)

It could still be a very challenging fight (by which I mean, unwinnable) depending on party composition, on account of the incorporeality.

[Mike J]

A paladin can smite at level 1, but depending on how you interpret the rules, that may not amount to squat without a magic weapon. I’m not sure how to resolve “is affected by supernatural abilities” and “is immune to all non-magical attack forms.” My call would be smite + mundane weapon = no effect, but I could be wrong.

Either way, this is in the category of throwing a CR 3 Wight against level 1 PCs. Sure the CR says “go for it”, but a closer look at the abilities says “that’s really unfair/unfun.”

[blahpers]

Correct; a paladin's smite with a mundane weapon would do pugwampi-squat to a ghost.

Don't throw a must-fight ghost at a level 1 party. Just . . . don't. Unless it's an all-good-cleric party or something.

[Asmodeus' Advocate]

Mike J wrote:

A paladin can smite at level 1, but depending on how you interpret the rules, that may not amount to squat without a magic weapon. I’m not sure how to resolve “is affected by supernatural abilities” and “is immune to all non-magical attack forms.”

Ah. I was just confused because you said, "nor will the paladin have their smite ability." Thanks for clarifying!

[Mike J]

Asmodeus' Advocate wrote:

Mike J wrote:

A paladin can smite at level 1, but depending on how you interpret the rules, that may not amount to squat without a magic weapon. I’m not sure how to resolve “is affected by supernatural abilities” and “is immune to all non-magical attack forms.”

Ah. I was just confused because you said, "nor will the paladin have their smite ability." Thanks for clarifying!

No worries, but I think you have me confused with Selvaxri who said that, and was probably thinking of Lay on Hands or something.

Although, I think all of us agree that 1st levels vs ghost is just bad encounter design.