Pillar of LIght VS Minotaurs

[Longshot11]

Pillar of Light allows characters to heal "instead of your first exploration for the turn". OTOH, Minotaurs have nasty "If it is your first exploration of the turn" powers. So, if a player heals with PoL, and THEN runs into a Minotaur - would that be his "first" exploration?

I seem to remember a similar case with Kyra and face-up barriers, where it was ruled that even after she heals - she still has to encounter the barrier. Still, I'm not sure if there were any differences in language (maybe "encounter this barrier AS your first exploration.."?) that *could* make a difference.

[Hawkmoon269]

This FAQ is similar.

I'd say the Minotaur cares about your first actual exploration. If you heal instead of your first exploration, then explore for real and encounter the Minotaur gets nasty.

[MuffinB]

Even if I understand that it's almost blasphemy to go against a Hawkmoon's interpretation, I will try to play Devil's advocate on this one.

The FAQ which Hawkmoon refers to specificaly applies to Faceup Cards, and I can see a difference between a faceup barrier and a minotaur. That difference being precisely that, at the begining of the turn, one card is faceup and not the other.

For the purpose of the example, let's say you are Kyra, or a character with card/power allowing them to do something instead of their first exploration. If you find yourself in a location with a faceup barrier before your first exploration, then you already know what your first exploration is going to be. In that case, it would be too easy to "dodge" the barrier by using your card/power to do something else instead of your first exploration, then spending some ressource (like a blessing) to explore past the barrier.

On the other hand, if you are that same Kyra and you start your turn with a facedown minotaur, *usually* you are not aware that you will face a minotaur with nasty effects that trigger on your first exploration. So if you did something else instead of your first exploration while technically not knowing your next encounter will be a minotaur, then spend some ressource to get an additional exploration, I don't see why you would not benefit from your exploration being an additional one.

I understand that after examining cards, you could be aware that the minotaur is to the top facedown card of the location and play accordingly to "dodge" his nasty effects, but I don't see this any different than if the minotaur was the second card from the top and you had examined the top two cards, and then play accordingly to "dodge" his nasty effect.

Also, if the FAQ about faceup barrier was applicable to the minotaur, it would also have to be applicable to other cards, like Blessing of Baphomet. And I think to one point, it would undermine the rule about what "instead" means. In usual instances "instead" would replace all of one thing by another, but then when that "instead" would be about "first exploration", it would only make you forfeit the part about "a free exploration" and not the part about "it being your first exploration". I believe it would lead to more confusion...

As I see it, the FAQ to which Hawkmoon refers to fixes only faceup barriers, and I think that by RAW, it fixes only that. I would play it that the minotaur has nasty effects if you did something else instead of your first exploration, just as I would not let a Blessing of Baphomet add 2 dice if you did something else instead of your first exploration.

[elcoderdude]

Blasphemy? :) Hawkmoon has been wrong numerous times, as have we all (and he's cataloged his own errors on occasion himself).

That said... I'm in a big rush at the moment, but my (thus far unsupported) judgment is Hawkmoon is right, by RAI certainly, possibly also by RAW. I understand Path of Light (like other similar powers, such as RotR Kyra) to mean the character's no-cost (i.e. 'free') exploration. Maybe it should say so more explicitly, then there would be no doubt about powers like the Minotaur's.

[MuffinB]

Re-reading my post, I notice I made a typo in the end (but now it's to late to edit). Of course I meant that "I would play it that the minotaur has doesn't have any nasty effects if you did something else instead of your first exploration, just as I would not let a Blessing of Baphomet add 2 dice if you did something else instead of your first exploration."

Also, I was being a little sarcastic about the "blasphemy"... It's just that Hawkmoon is a lot more often right than wrong :)

[Irgy]

I'm with Hawkmoon on this one. I agree the FAQ is technically talking about something different and we can't just take it at face value. But the principle is the same. It's your first explore of the turn if (and only if) you're exploring and it's the first time you've explored this turn. That's the simple, natural English interpretation. Anything else is overthinking the situation and attempting to make words mean what they don't and weren't intended to mean.

When you use Pillar of Light you're replacing what would have been your first exploration for the turn, but because you replaced it, it isn't an explore and by extension it isn't your "first explore" either.

I think the other interpretation only works if "First Explore" is an overloaded term the way "Before You Act" is, but there's nothing in the rulebook to suggest this is the case.

Incidentally I'd also say you can use Blessing of Baphomet for 2 dice any time that you're exploring and it's the first time you've explored this turn.

In fact I'd even go so far as to say that RotR Kyra could use her heal power, and then also use a blessing/ally to explore "again" and replace that explore with Pillar of Light as well. Though this one bothers me slightly.

[Hawkmoon269]

Ah, I'm wrong a lot more often in private.

One of the reasons I said what I did was that the FAQ I mentioned is from Skull and Shackles. I think that is before cards like the Minotaur appeared. The only "first exploration" things (or at least the most prevalent) were faceup barriers. And I'd expect the intent to be similar.

But I could see coming out wrong on this one.

[Irgy]

Also, even though it's about something else, I think this quote from Vic is relevant:
"The key word is "instead." If you do A instead of B, you did not do B."