This is something I thought up today and typed out in a frenzy to see how it worked on paper. I was going for an approach that felt less gamey but let me know what you all think.
The campaign uses Automatic Bonus Progression from Pathfinder Unchained and magic items are very rare.
With the exception of Potions, Scrolls, Wands and consumable wondrous items, magic items are and very difficult to craft without the right components. Magic items in treasure troves that only have incremental bonuses (+1-5 weapons and armor, rings of protection, cloaks of resistance, amulets of natural armor, bracers of armor, ability boosting belts and headbands) provide crafting components for their item type equal to their original sell value which can be stockpiled or sold for that value. Stockpiled components can only be used to craft items of that type; for wondrous items the components can be applied to any wondrous items as some item slots lack incremental bonus items. Exception: Some high level bonus items that have incremental bonuses to AC, such as the Robe of The Archmagi or Gunman’s Duster, still provide their AC bonus to armor and may be selected for Armor attunement in place of normal armor.
Magic items with non-incremental bonuses are still looted as normal but their values are doubled. Magic weapon and armor enchantments have their GP or bonus value doubled (example: flaming has a +2 value instead of +1) to determine their price and the maximum bonus a weapon can have. To craft an item without an incremental bonus the crafter needs both the total value in crafting components and a catalyst item that contains the specific enchantment; the item needed for each enchantment is usually a gem or part of a monster that makes logical sense. For example: dragon scales can be used as a catalyst to create armor or rings that resist the dragon’s element or the core of a greater or elder elemental can be used to create a weapon with an elemental attack or burst quality respectively that matches the elemental’s subtype or provides a similar bonus. In the case of dragons, the scales used as the catalyst do not take away from the ability to create a suit of armor from those and shield of the right size. Masterwork Weapons still provide a +1 to attack which stacks with automatic progression and Masterwork Armor still reduces armor check penalty by 1.
The player’s inherent bonuses to attack attunement do not allow the automatic bypass of DR types. Instead the players will need weapons of the right material or enchantment to bypass those types. Any magic enchantment on a weapon will bypass DR/magic, material types are needed to bypass DR/Cold Iron, Silver or Adamantine (or other exotic materials), and weapons or spells with the correct alignment enchantment are needed to bypass DR/Alignment; other types of DR such as DR/slashing, piercing or bludgeoning remain the same. DR/Epic can be bypassed only by specific weapon enchantments, spells, or special abilities usually granted to mythic characters. Monsters with DR retain their ability to bypass DR of that type and they retain weapons increment bonuses, which in this case as treated as a natural ability of the monster with the magic item components being part of their bodies; humanoids with incremental items will be treated as though they are part of their own inherent bonus progression and will carry crafting components equal to the value of their inherent equipment (assumed that they harvested from other monsters for selling or crafting).
Crafting time for non-consumable magic items is greatly reduced if the crafter has all the material components plus the necessary catalyst: 1 day per 100,000gp value with a maximum of one item per day. However, if the crafter does not have the required components at the time they wish to start crafting then the crafting time becomes 1 day per 1,000gp with the time spent searching for and buying the materials and catalyst for crafting. The Base Limit of the settlement is the maximum cost of a single catalyst that may be purchased in the particular settlement and the Purchase Limit is the maximum value of crafting materials that can be purchased for a single magic item. The available magic items in a settlement are instead a list of catalysts available for a specific magic item regardless of purchase limit and base value and are rolled as normal (rerolling any rolls that result in an incremental item, reducing the value class of the item if needed). The Rogue’s Black Market talent increases these values as normal but any items purchased above the settlement’s normal purchase limits and item availability cost 50% more (though this does not increase crafting time).
Non-consumable magic items price doubles (increment bonus is not subtracted from cost) and the price of catalysts are equal to half the normal base crafting cost of the magic item (1/4 of the item’s complete crafting cost). Magic armor, shield and weapon catalysts only account for the value of their original value (example: flaming in this system is a +2 value which is worth a 4000 crafting value but a +1 in normal pathfinder which is a 1000gp crafting value, so 1000gp is subtracted from the cost to craft to get the cost of the raw materials). Magic items are rarely sold as the prestige of owning or crafting a magic item is worth more to most people than the gold they would earn for selling them, however in the rare opportunity that magic items can be bought they will sell for their normal price from those who are desperate for money, or double price for those who can get away with it (people who crafted them or rich jerks and so on).
Spellcraft may not be used to craft non-consumable magic items, instead the appropriate craft or profession check must be used (as listed on the magic item creation guide). The feat “Master Craftsman” affects all craft and profession skills with at least 5 ranks and they may be used to craft the items they are related to. Due to the use of catalysts, spells are not needed to create these magic items but all craft DCs are increased by 5.
Extra note: increase craft DCs to increase the skill needed to create magic items and add to their appeal and rarity?
Mundane, Masterwork, Alchemy, potion, scroll, wand and consumable wondrous item crafting is the same as in normal pathfinder including the casting of spells into objects; spellcraft may be used to craft all consumable magical items. Spellbooks for casters that use them functions normally as their creation is part of the caster’s training.
Artifacts break two of these rules. First, artifacts that provide increment bonuses still do so and they stack with the increment bonuses from automatic bonus progression; these bonuses are treated as the same type as the bonus they stack with for the purposes of how they interact with conditional modifiers such as touch or flat-footed AC. Second, artifact weapons bypass DR with the increment bonuses just like in normal pathfinder and if their combined base plus special ability enchantment is +6 or more they will bypass DR/Epic.
The purpose of these rules is for the following five reasons:
1: To reduce the “magic item Christmas tree” effect for where every slot is filled with the best possible magic item at a given time.
2: To increase the value of magic items both in universe and to the players, so finding or crafting magic items is a big event and not just another signpost at the side of the road.
3: To encourage players to use more interesting magic items instead of the standard incremental bonus items, as those bonuses are gained from levelling up.
4: To increase the usefulness of specific magic weapons, armor and shields. Examples: Folding armor allows the wearer to pack up their armor Iron Man style but is only a +1 Full plate, flame tongue is a flaming burst weapon that can shoot a fiery ray once per day but is only +1, with this system the player’s attunement bonus will encourage them to use unique magic items they loot or craft themselves instead of just taking raw number enchantment value with no special powers.
5: to make Artifacts even more special since they can stack with other bonuses and will be seen as useful by PCs regardless of their power. For example: I wanted to give Vesper’s rapier to one of my players a while ago, but he dismissed it entirely because the base enchantment was only +3 compared to his +10 total kukri.
please give constructive criticism and suggestions.
Pathfinder's enhancement bonuses replacing the need for special materials was put in to reduce the incentive to have a 'golf bag' full of weapons. It's not essential - D&D 3.5 managed just fine - but be aware that the golf bag is what you're promoting by re-removing that.
Rather than just crafting materials you might create a name for the crafting components, whether that's something simple like soul or bafflegab like stabilized mana-enriched materia.
I was going to say that I feel the "Golf Bag" mentality is a bit worrying regarding this... Admittedly I feel like I'd go literally the opposite direction with making magic items special by importing Kirthfinder's Numen System without changing any of the mechanics.
Essentially Numen is a replacement for how gold works for magical enhancements. players have a certain amount of numen per level and are invited to come up with unique ways to spend them and find reasons that they would find a given item. This eliminates what I call the "WoW Problem" with the idea that you raid to get gold and better loot to raid with when realistically these characters have more money than entire kingdoms by level 20.
Though I do also understand what you're going for by making magic items more expensive, you basically want a low magic system
Pathfinder's enhancement bonuses replacing the need for special materials was put in to reduce the incentive to have a 'golf bag' full of weapons. It's not essential - D&D 3.5 managed just fine - but be aware that the golf bag is what you're promoting by re-removing that.
Rather than just crafting materials you might create a name for the crafting components, whether that's something simple like soul or bafflegab like stabilized mana-enriched materia.
Considering how no one even bothers thinking about weapon choice at all (beyond melee vs range) in my groups, I'd welcome having my players think more often.
As for names, I'll admit my ability to name things is very limited.
I was going to say that I feel the "Golf Bag" mentality is a bit worrying regarding this... Admittedly I feel like I'd go literally the opposite direction with making magic items special by importing Kirthfinder's Numen System without changing any of the mechanics.
Essentially Numen is a replacement for how gold works for magical enhancements. players have a certain amount of numen per level and are invited to come up with unique ways to spend them and find reasons that they would find a given item. This eliminates what I call the "WoW Problem" with the idea that you raid to get gold and better loot to raid with when realistically these characters have more money than entire kingdoms by level 20.
Though I do also understand what you're going for by making magic items more expensive, you basically want a low magic system
If I were trying to make a low magic system then I wouldn't bother with the automatic bonus progression. Spellcasters can still use their spells to full effect and material components don't suddenly become huge investments. I'm simply trying to invest more meaning into magic items beyond simple stat boosts.
Outside of D&D mechanics verses like "Order of the Stick" magic items in fiction are usually more meaningful and interesting than what a +1-5 bonus to a specific game stat implies.
I was going to say that I feel the "Golf Bag" mentality is a bit worrying regarding this... Admittedly I feel like I'd go literally the opposite direction with making magic items special by importing Kirthfinder's Numen System without changing any of the mechanics.
Essentially Numen is a replacement for how gold works for magical enhancements. players have a certain amount of numen per level and are invited to come up with unique ways to spend them and find reasons that they would find a given item. This eliminates what I call the "WoW Problem" with the idea that you raid to get gold and better loot to raid with when realistically these characters have more money than entire kingdoms by level 20.
Though I do also understand what you're going for by making magic items more expensive, you basically want a low magic system
If I were trying to make a low magic system then I wouldn't bother with the automatic bonus progression. Spellcasters can still use their spells to full effect and material components don't suddenly become huge investments. I'm simply trying to invest more meaning into magic items beyond simple stat boosts.
Outside of D&D mechanics verses like "Order of the Stick" magic items in fiction are usually more meaningful and interesting than what a +1-5 bonus to a specific game stat implies.
Sorry. I guess I didn't really know what the automatic progression thing means and I probably should check that out
Sorry. I guess I didn't really know what the automatic progression thing means and I probably should check that outI was going to say that I feel the "Golf Bag" mentality is a bit worrying regarding this... Admittedly I feel like I'd go literally the opposite direction with making magic items special by importing Kirthfinder's Numen System without changing any of the mechanics.
Essentially Numen is a replacement for how gold works for magical enhancements. players have a certain amount of numen per level and are invited to come up with unique ways to spend them and find reasons that they would find a given item. This eliminates what I call the "WoW Problem" with the idea that you raid to get gold and better loot to raid with when realistically these characters have more money than entire kingdoms by level 20.
Though I do also understand what you're going for by making magic items more expensive, you basically want a low magic system
If I were trying to make a low magic system then I wouldn't bother with the automatic bonus progression. Spellcasters can still use their spells to full effect and material components don't suddenly become huge investments. I'm simply trying to invest more meaning into magic items beyond simple stat boosts.
Outside of D&D mechanics verses like "Order of the Stick" magic items in fiction are usually more meaningful and interesting than what a +1-5 bonus to a specific game stat implies.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/unchained-rules/automati c-bonus-progression/
Some new add-ons to the rules I've come up with recently
Knowledge skills can be used to identify what kind of magic catalysts specific monsters would have in their bodies while they're alive or after they are slain. The type of knowledge skill needed matches the kind used to identify the monster.
Detect Magic combined with Spellcraft can be used to check remains for catalysts as well.
If a monster is killed by an effect that destroys the body completely, such as disintegrate or destruction, then no catalysts can be harvested as they will have been destroyed.
The Amulet of Mighty fists applies bonuses based on the original value of the bonuses, not the heightened prices (flaming would be +1 on the amulet of might fists). Monks are underpowered anyway so they get some leeway here
I might have more but I can't recall what they were.
So when an elemental dies they leave behind an elemental catalist crystal?
Monks who escue weapons should be allowed to bypass damage resistance at some point. Perhaps a ritual branding could make their hands and feet into magic weapons. Perhaps the ritual of the mark of the adamantine touch would require a tattoo that includes the metal in the pigment.
More to the OPs topic, you can either ban weaponless fighters such as specialist monks, or have a side adventure with a haunted temple where the major treasure is magic hand and foot wraps, gloves, or slippers.
So when an elemental dies they leave behind an elemental catalist crystal?
Monks who escue weapons should be allowed to bypass damage resistance at some point. Perhaps a ritual branding could make their hands and feet into magic weapons. Perhaps the ritual of the mark of the adamantine touch would require a tattoo that includes the metal in the pigment.
Yes, but only the greater or elder elementals should leave behidn ones potent enough for the elemental weapons.
As for monks who just use unarmed strike, they still have ki strike which makes their weapons count as magic, cold iron, silver, lawful and adamantine as they level so they get to bypass DR the same way they always have.
More to the OPs topic, you can either ban weaponless fighters such as specialist monks, or have a side adventure with a haunted temple where the major treasure is magic hand and foot wraps, gloves, or slippers.
Why would I need to? Monks can, with automatic bonus progression, choose "unarmed strike" as the weapon they enhance with their weapon bonus which counts as one weapon according to the rules. They would still get their Ki Strikes and an enhancement scaling up to +5
So when an elemental dies they leave behind an elemental catalist crystal?
Monks who escue weapons should be allowed to bypass damage resistance at some point. Perhaps a ritual branding could make their hands and feet into magic weapons. Perhaps the ritual of the mark of the adamantine touch would require a tattoo that includes the metal in the pigment.
Yes, but only the greater or elder elementals should leave behidn ones potent enough for the elemental weapons.
As for monks who just use unarmed strike, they still have ki strike which makes their weapons count as magic, cold iron, silver, lawful and adamantine as they level so they get to bypass DR the same way they always have.
More to the OPs topic, you can either ban weaponless fighters such as specialist monks, or have a side adventure with a haunted temple where the major treasure is magic hand and foot wraps, gloves, or slippers.Why would I need to? Monks can, with automatic bonus progression, choose "unarmed strike" as the weapon they enhance with their weapon bonus which counts as one weapon according to the rules. They would still get their Ki Strikes and an enhancement scaling up to +5
Monks, apparently so forgettable that people don't even remember one of their big class abilities
Cryos I am on a similar quest and I found "The Black Company" by Green Ronin to be helful with mundane items. They have an interesting take on mastercraft which I'll be using in my campaign. I would also suggest making money hard to come by, perhaps switching to a silver standard and using the lifestyle costs with penalties below a certain level. Characters never feel the crunch of having to pay to live which is what most people spend their money on. Only ever having excess wealth is what complicates dealing with character wealth. Just my two cents...