So I am looking at a Dual Cursed Oracle for my upcoming character in Hell's Rebels.
This is a preliminary build for what I am considering
CG Aasimar (Musetouched) Dual Cursed Oracle
(Side note about Dual Cursed, is it just me or does the combination of things like quickened Ill Omen and the Misfortune revelation make a dual cursed oracle really good at save or X spells later in the game?)
Curses: Deep One and Tongues
(Because we are using background skills, the entire Tongues curse is circumvented by each PC using 1 point of background skill in linguistics, and Deep One, even at level 1 is arguably more of a benefit than a curse already, also I have gleaned from reading the Players Guide that at some point in this campaign a swim speed could be quite useful, especially for someone who will have a pretty bad swim skill check.)
Mystery: Time ???
(I like time, it has a lot of great utility, more rerolls, tons of good free spell like abilities, some of which (blur, true seeing) don't have to be used consecutively, roll 2-3 times for initiative and take the best, also the spells that the Dual Cursed Archetype replaces are the worst of the Time Mystery's bonus spells)
25 Point Buy
Str 7
Dex 17 (+2)
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 19 (+2)
Traits (We get 2 regular + 1 campaign):
Campaign
Ex Asmodean (+1 Save DCs vs agents of House Thrune and most Devils)
-or-
Star Struck - Shensen (1/day roll twice on Cha skill check and take better)
Regular
Seeker (Perception as class skill and +1)
????
Feats
????
While I would appreciate sticking more or less to this build in terms of class, archetype, and to a lesser extent the mystery, I appreciate any advice and feel free to suggest any type of changes to the build.
The other build I was considering was some type of Cleric, most likely a Cleric of Desna with the Travel and either Luck or Liberation domains, possibly also with the Devout Pilgrim archetype. However, this campaign will pose a lot of challenges for a cleric versus an oracle, because worship of Desna is outlawed, so I would have to be decent in at least either Bluff or Disguise, neither of which are class skills. This makes the Cleric even more MAD because you only have 2+Int skills (Versus Oracle's 4+Int) and in addition to the staple Cleric skills (Sense Motive, Perception, K: Religion, Spellcraft) you also have to be decent in 1-2 social skills, most likely Bluff and/or Diplomacy.
One option I did consider was the Herald Caller archetype. It gets 4+Int and is fantastic at summoning, getting (effectively) 3 free feats plus the ability to communicate with all your summons. Plus you can spontaneously convert to Summoning Spells as well as Cure Spells, and you can even spontaneously convert Domain Spells to Summons (The spontaneous summon ability lacks the restriction on domain spells that the spontaneous cure ability has).
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The Birthmark trait is one way for a cleric to get around the holy symbol problem. You could also have another party member carry your holy symbol when you go through checkpoints.
I also considered being a Half Orc and taking the Sacred Tattoo (Tattoo of the Holy Symbol), Burning Assurance (For +2 Diplomacy instead of Intimidate) and Fey Thoughts (To get Bluff and Perception as Class Skills) and putting the tattoo somewhere easy to hide but also easy to reveal when necessary, like the upper arm (with an over the shoulder cloak) or the back of the neck (with a hood). This also makes Fate's Favored and easy trait choice.
The role that I am going to be filling is divine caster, and I would prefer to stay at 9th level spellcasting divine caster. These are my two most obvious options. I am not sure about the Shaman, but has anyone had any experience playing a Restorer Druid as the party divine caster? Gets around the religion issue, gets an animal companion, still has 9th level casting with spontaneous cures, plus wild shape. Only thing I am not sure about is it is a campaign that takes place mostly within a city, so some of the class features may be somewhat wasted. I am also not too familiar with exactly how different the Druid and Cleric spell lists are. Any major advantages/disadvantages I should know about with the Druid list?
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Shamans are great if built correctly. Hexes mean you can conserve spells until you need them most. You can, with the correct build, dramatically expand their spells list with wizard and cleric spells.
Druids have good control and damage spells but limited healing, removal and restorations type spells. Spontanious summons mean you can't really screw up your prep. It is much more powerful than spontanious cures. Like clerics they can be casters or melee casters. For casters wild shape is an amazing defensive ability. Flight and ac are very useful.
I would skip restorer prep a couple of cure spells and if you don't need them or other spells turn them into summons.
Cleric has better support, and buffing spells. Druids buff natural weapons and animal companions well but that about it for buffing.
Oracles and clerics can also get animal companions. Nature and lunar oracles and animal domain clerics have the options, though you would have to worship a different God or play a separitist.
I am not really that invested into getting the animal companion, definitely not so much that I would go out of my way to get it on a Cleric or Oracle. What do you think about playing a pure spellcasting Druid, using wild shape for, like you said, defensive purposes. I feel like there was a druid archetype that requires you to worship a deity, gave you an aura (opening up Sacred Summons) and let you pick one of your deity's domains if you chose domain as your nature bond. I can't seem to find it right now though.
Also, Grand, could you give me an idea on a good way to build a shaman if you have the time?
***With the Revelations added, here is the current build***
CG Aasimar (Musetouched) Dual Cursed Oracle
(Side note about Dual Cursed, is it just me or does the combination of things like quickened Ill Omen and the Misfortune revelation make a dual cursed oracle really good at save or X spells later in the game?)
Curses: Deep One and Tongues
(Because we are using background skills, the entire Tongues curse is circumvented by each PC using 1 point of background skill in linguistics, and Deep One, even at level 1 is arguably more of a benefit than a curse already, also I have gleaned from reading the Players Guide that at some point in this campaign a swim speed could be quite useful, especially for someone who will have a pretty bad swim skill check. The benefits of Deep One will not progress)
Mystery: Time
(I like time, it has a lot of great utility, more rerolls, tons of good free spell like abilities, some of which (blur, true seeing) don't have to be used consecutively, roll 2-3 times for initiative and take the best, also the spells that the Dual Cursed Archetype replaces are the worst of the Time Mystery's bonus spells)
25 Point Buy
Str 7
Dex 17 (+2)
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 19 (+2)
Traits (We get 2 regular + 1 campaign):
Campaign
Ex Asmodean (+1 Save DCs vs agents of House Thrune and most Devils)
-or-
Star Struck - Shensen (1/day roll twice on Cha skill check and take better)
Regular
Seeker (Perception as class skill and +1)
????
Feats
1 - Spell Focus (Conjuration)
3 - Extra Revelation
5 - Augment Summoning
7 - Extra Revelation
9 - ????
11 - Quicken Spell
13 - ????
15 - ????
17 - ????
Revelations
1 - Misfortune
3 - Temporal Celerity / Time Flicker (Extra Revelation)
5 - Fortune
7 - Time Hop / Speed or Slow Time (Extra Revelation)
11 - Time Sight
13 - Rewind Time
15 - Erase from Time -or- Aging Touch -or- Momentary Glimpse
(Honestly normally when I look at Oracle Revelations there are a couple that stand out as being great options, some that are okay, and others that are filler. This time (no pun intended) there were so many good ones. I almost never take extra revelations, but I feel these are worth it. The Revelation at level 15 was the only one I was unsure about, as by level 15 I had already gotten the high level revelations and all the low level revelations I skipped earlier don't seem that great. Its between a couple of melee touch attacks (eww) and a handful of situational +2 bonuses per day)
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Shaman
Take an spirit that suits your fancy. For your wandering spirit you take the lore and each day you take arcane enlightenment as your wandering spirit. This allows you to pick up wizard spells.
Race
Human or half human for the FCB to pick spells of the cleric list.
Stats (this is the hard part)
Human Dual talented. Wis is your primary stat. Int and Cha are secondary. Over the life of the character you will want your int to reach 19, cha 16 or higher.
Gear
Wis headband, Cha ioun stone (8000gp), then add Int to the head band around level 13 or 15 13/14. Get metamagic rods. That's most of the build.
Grand, What about an Aasimar with the Scion of Humanity ART? Gives you +2 Wis and Charisma along with other cool stuff, and with the ART you can pick Human FCBs.
Ok, I get it, you take the Lore Spirit as Wandering, then when you get Wandering Hex you get Charisma different Wizard spells available each day. That is actually amazing.
So question, since it works for all intents and purposes like a Wizard familiar, can you take Improved Familiar as a shaman to get something like a Faerie Dragon as your spirit animal?
Rough Shaman Build
CG Aasimar Shaman
25 Point Buy
Str 7
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 15
Wis 18 (+2)
Cha 14 (+2)
Feats
No Idea
Spirit: Life
Spirit Animal: Greensting Scorpion
Hexes
2 - Evil Eye
4 - Fortune
6 (Wandering) - Arcane Enlightenment
8 - Chant
10 -
12 -
14 (Wandering)
(Honestly here I am a bit lost as to what to take, never played a witch so pretty unfamiliar with the hexes)
Wandering Spirit (Lore)
Obviously the Wizard spells get changed every day, but what are good cleric spells to take with the FCB?
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How would you distribute 20 point buy stats for a Lore Wandering Spirit build? I've seen people advocate Lore Wandering spirit, but I've never seen a satisfactory build. How is it better than a Speaker for the Past (with Heroism and Haste) using a non-MAD stat layout?
FWIW, I've played a Str reach build (Flame spirit) and a caster build (Heavens, Speaker for the Past) — both seem to work well.
The Speaker for the Past archetype looks really interesting, kind of a mix of my Time Oracle build and a Shaman. Ill have to take a closer look at that. Sucks losing the Wandering Hex from Lore, could you still use the Spirit Talker feat to access the Arcane Enlightenment Hex to prepare the arcane spells?
Regardless, I think the Oracle will work better for me in this campaign. So I would love to get some more feedback on the most recent build posted.
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Stats for dual talented human look something like 8/10/12/14+2/16+2/14
12 con and d8 is like 14 con on a d6 it is manageable but be careful, get a belt or toughness if you feel the need.
You're in medium armor so you can hold 60 lb I have not had much trouble with it. You have hexes which more than compensate for not having a 20 in your casting stat like a wizard may.
As for haste and heroism if your main spirit is ancestor you have at least one casting of heroism, haste you can take with one of your spells. 2 castings of haste at level 12 is kind of weak and they can never be quickened.
There is also the fact that you can pick up other powerful spells when you need them teleport, dim door, life bubble (for stinking cloud) etc.
I would say they compare favourably I have played both speaker for the past and the arcane enlightenment shaman and liked them both.
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Your other build looks good. Reach is nice for spell like bestow curse. I have found heighten to be really useful on spontanious casters.
I have had bust of radiance or blindness deafness win fights at higher levels but the dcs would be too low without heighten.
Improved initiative is pretty good.
I also like eldritch heritage arcane on these builds. You can boost initiative, get a protector familair for 2 feats and later get abilities that make metamagic feats easier.
Do you think it would be better to go Improved Initiative and Item Creation/Metamagic feats like Heighten and Reach Spell over Spell Focus Conjuration and Augmented Summoning, considering I am not really trying to make a summoning focused build?
Also, regarding the Extra Revelation feats, I am not actually sure if they are worth it.
Is Blur for level minutes/day (and/or Blink for level rounds/day) that takes a standard action to activate worth a feat?
Is SLA Haste or Slow 1/day (2/day at 12th) worth a feat?
My instinct on these is that they probably are worth a feat, but do I actually want them.
I am thinking without the summoning focused feats, my feats look something like this
1 - Improved Initiative
3 - Extra Revelation (Time Flicker)
5 - Craft Wondrous Item
7 - Extra Revelation (Speed or Slow Time)
9 - Craft Magic Arms and Armor (For the group, also to make Celestial Armor)
11 - Heighten Spell
13 - Craft Rod
15 - Quicken Spell
I can grab a Reach Metamagic Rod for Bestow Curse. I can cast a Heightened Bestow Curse up to 6th level with a Normal Reach Metamagic Rod and up to 9th level with a Greater Reach Metamagic Rod, right?
Also what about the Magical Lineage Trait for either Ill Omen (for easier Quicken) or Bestow Curse (Better Heightening)? Is that worth taking over the Second Chance trait? I feel like Second Chance might be better because I am not really going for an all in metamagic shenanigans debuffing build.
Updated Build (Getting close)
CG Aasimar (Musetouched) Dual Cursed Oracle
Curses: Deep One and Tongues
Mystery: Time
25 Point Buy
Str 7
Dex 17 (+2)
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 19 (+2)
Traits (We get 2 regular + 1 campaign):
Campaign
Ex Asmodean (+1 Save DCs vs agents of House Thrune and most Devils)
Regular
Seeker (Perception as class skill and +1)
Second Chance
Feats
1 - Improved Initiative
3 - Craft Wondrous Item
5 - Craft Magic Arms and Armor
7 - Spell Penetration
9 - Craft Rod
11 - Heighten Spell
13 - Quicken Spell
15 - Greater Spell Penetration
17 - Piercing Spell
Revelations
1 - Misfortune
3 - Temporal Celerity
5 - Fortune
7 - Time Hop
11 - Time Sight
13 - Rewind Time
15 - Speed or Slow Time
Spells (Early draft, subject to much revision)
* denotes spell gained through FCB
M denotes gained as a bonus spell from Mystery
1st - Cure Light Wounds (1), Bless (1), Protection from Evil (1), Guidance (0), Detect Poison (0), Create Water (0), Read Magic (0)
2nd - Ill Omen (1M), Detect Magic (0)
3rd - Remove Sickness (1)
4th - Protection from Evil, Communal (2) Cure Moderate Wounds (2), Oracle's Burden (2M), Shield of Faith (1*), Obscuring Mist (1)[replaces Protection from Evil], Purify Food and Drink (0)
5th - Hold Person (2), Weapons Against Evil (1), Air Bubble (1*)
6th - Cure Serious Wounds (3), Summon Monster III (3), Bestow Curse (3M), Resist Energy (2*), Liberating Command (1)[replaces Bless], Mending (0)
7th - Remove Curse (3), Lesser Restoration (2), Admonishing Ray (2*), Embrace Destiny (1)
8th - Cure Critical Wounds (4), Threefold Aspect (4M), Blessing of Fervor (4), Resist Energy, Communal(3*), Silence (2)[replaces Resist Energy] Spark (0)
9th - Neutralize Poison (4), Stone Shape (3), Dispel Magic (3*), Darkness (2)
10th - Cure Light Wounds, Mass (5), Permanency (5M), Summon Monster V (5), Freedom of Movement (4*), Magic Circle Against Evil (3)[replaces Summon Monster III], Stabilize (0)
11th - Breath of Life (5), Restoration (4), Magic Weapon, Greater (4*), Magic Vestment (3), Align Weapon (2)
12th - Cure Moderate Wounds, Mass (6), Contingency (6M), Heal (6), Wall of Stone (5*), Dimensional Anchor (4th)[replaces Blessing of Fervor]
13th - Banishment (6), Break Enchantment (5), Raise Dead (5*), Protection from Energy, Communal (4)
14th - Cure Serious Wounds, Mass (7), Disintegrate (7M), Summon Monster VII (7), Dispel Magic, Greater (6*), Fickle Winds (5)[replaces Raise Dead]
15th - Ethereal Jaunt (7), Wind Walk (6), Harm (6*), Plane Shift (5)
16th - Cure Critical Wounds, Mass (8th), Temporal Stasis (8M),
Greater Planar Ally (8) Control Weather (7*)
17th - Stormbolts (8), Refuge (7), Regenerate (7*)
18th - Time Stop (9M), Miracle (9), Greater Spell Immunity (8*)
Spell List Updated
1st - Cure Light Wounds (1), Bless (1), Protection from Evil (1), Guidance (0), Detect Poison (0), Create Water (0), Read Magic (0)
2nd - Ill Omen (1M), Detect Magic (0)
3rd - Weapons Against Evil (1)
4th - Hold Person (2) Cure Moderate Wounds (2), Oracle's Burden (2M), Sanctuary (1*), Obscuring Mist (1)[replaces Bless], Purify Food and Drink (0)
5th - Resist Energy (2), Shield of Faith (1), Air Bubble (1*)
6th - Cure Serious Wounds (3), Summon Monster III (3), Bestow Curse (3M), Protection from Evil, Communal (2*), Liberating Command (1)[replaces Protection from Evil], Mending (0)
7th - Dispel Magic (3), Lesser Restoration (2), Admonishing Ray (2*), Embrace Destiny (1)
8th - Cure Critical Wounds (4), Threefold Aspect (4M), Blessing of Fervor (4), Resist Energy, Communal(3*), Silence (2)[replaces Resist Energy] Spark (0)
9th - Neutralize Poison (4), Stone Shape (3), Locate Object (3*), Darkness (2)
10th - Cure Light Wounds, Mass (5), Permanency (5M), Summon Monster V (5), Freedom of Movement (4*), Speak with Dead (3)[replaces Summon Monster III], Stabilize (0)
11th - Breath of Life (5), Restoration (4), Dimensional Anchor (4*), Remove Curse (3), Align Weapon (2)
12th - Cure Moderate Wounds, Mass (6), Contingency (6M), Heal (6), Wall of Stone (5*),
13th - Banishment (6), Break Enchantment (5), Raise Dead (5*), Protection from Energy, Communal (4)
14th - Cure Serious Wounds, Mass (7), Disintegrate (7M), Summon Monster VII (7), Dispel Magic, Greater (6*), Fickle Winds (5)[replaces Raise Dead]
15th - Ethereal Jaunt (7), Wind Walk (6), Harm (6*), Plane Shift (5)
16th - Cure Critical Wounds, Mass (8th), Temporal Stasis (8M),
Greater Planar Ally (8) Control Weather (7*)
17th - Stormbolts (8), Refuge (7), Regenerate (7*)
18th - Time Stop (9M), Miracle (9), Greater Spell Immunity (8*)