The 20th level Bardic performance states that:
"A bard of 20th level or higher can use his performance to cause one enemy to die from joy or sorrow. [...] If a creature’s saving throw succeeds, the target is staggered for 1d4 rounds, and the bard cannot use deadly performance on that creature again for 24 hours. If a creature’s saving throw fails, it dies."
Regeneration states that:
"A creature with this ability is difficult to kill. Creatures with regeneration heal damage at a fixed rate, as with fast healing, but they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning(although creatures with regeneration still fall unconscious when their hit points are below 0)"
By my understanding, the Regeneration's "cannot die" clause overrides the Bard's "creature dies" ability. My question is: What actually happens to the creature then? The vast majority of death effects in Pathfinder simply deal vast amounts of damage rather than killing outright, Deadly Performance is the first thing I've seen that simply says "the creature dies". With something like Finger of Death it's easy, if it would die the creature simply drops into negative hp and continues regenerating. However, since Deadly Performance has no effect other than "it dies", does anything actually happen to the regenerating creature when subject to that performance?
So... No. The REASON for no isn't because death overrides all, but because death is actually a Condition.
Conditions wrote: The character’s hit points are reduced to a negative amount equal to his Constitution score, his Constitution drops to 0, or he is killed outright by a spell or effect. The character’s soul leaves his body. Dead characters cannot benefit from normal or magical healing, but they can be restored to life via magic. A dead body decays normally unless magically preserved, but magic that restores a dead character to life also restores the body either to full health or to its condition at the time of death (depending on the spell or device). Either way, resurrected characters need not worry about rigor mortis, decomposition, and other conditions that affect dead bodies. There ARE creatures who can regenerate from dead, such as the Behemoth. But Dead, unless otherwise specified, is dead.
I guess it's technically more correct to say that, if there's a rule for a special exception (like that a Behemoth can regenerate from death effects), then the opposite is default (death effects kill regenerating monsters).
Zarius wrote: So... No. The REASON for no isn't because death overrides all, but because death is actually a Condition.
Conditions wrote: The character’s hit points are reduced to a negative amount equal to his Constitution score, his Constitution drops to 0, or he is killed outright by a spell or effect. The character’s soul leaves his body. Dead characters cannot benefit from normal or magical healing, but they can be restored to life via magic. A dead body decays normally unless magically preserved, but magic that restores a dead character to life also restores the body either to full health or to its condition at the time of death (depending on the spell or device). Either way, resurrected characters need not worry about rigor mortis, decomposition, and other conditions that affect dead bodies. There ARE creatures who can regenerate from dead, such as the Behemoth. But Dead, unless otherwise specified, is dead.
So are creatures with Regeneration vulnerable to death effects as normal then? The description on the behemoth would seem to imply that, but at the same time the description for Regeneration is clear that a regenerating creature cannot die (ie is immune to the death condition) while its regeneration is active.
It CAN be interpreted either way, taking JUST the Regeneration clause into account, but there's a rule that makes certain types of regenerating creatures immune to them, so I always err on the side of special rules being special cases.
In this case, BECAUSE there is a rule for creatures with regeneration becoming immune to them, I'd rule that normal ones are not.
Zarius wrote: It CAN be interpreted either way, taking JUST the Regeneration clause into account, but there's a rule that makes certain types of regenerating creatures immune to them, so I always err on the side of special rules being special cases.
In this case, BECAUSE there is a rule for creatures with regeneration becoming immune to them, I'd rule that normal ones are not.
That's a fair interpretation. It seems that the RAW effect of Regeneration vs Death Effects is an ongoing debate which has yet to be FAQ'd, judging by some previous threads, and your interpretation makes deciding what happens to the regenerating creature easier so I think I'll run with that for now.
Regeneration
Quote: Attack forms that don’t deal hit point damage are not healed by regeneration. It died to joy. Regeneration cannot fix that, as it is not hit points. Result: still dead.
Ditto a coup-de-gras' fort save.
Ditto death by massive damage fort save.
Ditto to drowning.
Ditto to suffocation.
/cevah
Technically, drowning is a form of suffocation. And technically, you die from suffocation due to HP loss. For those two, I'd rule it keeps you not-quite-dead-yet.
Agre on the coup and the massive damage fort saves, though. That's "save or die, flat out."
Suffocation
Quote: When the character fails one of these Constitution checks, she begins to suffocate. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hit points). In the following round, she drops to –1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she suffocates. This is not damage, so not regenerated.
Drowning
Quote: When the character finally fails her Constitution check, she begins to drown. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hp). In the following round, she drops to –1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she drowns. This is not damage, so not regenerated.
/cevah
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