The Oddity of Extracts and How To Use Them

[BlingerBunny]

So, the title may be misleading, but I've got some questions about Extracts. If anyone else has questions feel free to ask as well, because I may not have run into those situations yet.

1- What are Extracts classified as?
2- What effects/abilities/talents/(etc...) can be used with Extracts?
3- If you use peanut butter on hotdogs, then how many waffles can cover a blue bird-house, in the middle of June?

More questions will be asked, based on the answers received.

[Matthew Downie]

As in, Alchemist Extracts?

1 - They are classified as Extracts.

2 - Abilities that are stated as only working with 'potions' do not work with extracts. Abilities that are stated as only working with 'spells' do not work with extracts. Abilities that are stated as working with 'extracts' do work with extracts. Abilities that are stated as working with 'liquids' probably work with extracts. (Very few things work with extracts; Infusion is probably the most notable.)

3 - I refuse to answer this question as I am allergic to peanuts.

[BlingerBunny]

Yes, the extracts provided by the Alchemy ability, which is granted by the Alchemist and Investigator classes.

Then according to the information you have provided; Extracts are not effected by the benefits of Enhance Potion, Extend Potion, and Eternal Potion. Which are provided through the Alchemist's Discovery class feature, and were intended for use in conjunction with Extracts and Potions. Am I right in this assumption?

I'd like to inquire further, as the Alchemy ability says;
"Extracts are the most varied of the three. In many ways, they behave like spells in potion form, and as such their effects can be dispelled by effects like dispel magic using the alchemist’s level as the caster level. Unlike potions, though, extracts can have powerful effects and duplicate spells that a potion normally could not."

I believe Paizo should clarify either the Discoveries or the Alchemy Class Feature. It says they behave like spells in potion form, which would mean that they qualify as potions, except that extracts can be much stronger than traditional potions.

[Matthew Downie]

Quote:

Extracts are not effected by the benefits of Enhance Potion, Extend Potion, and Eternal Potion. Which are provided through the Alchemist's Discovery class feature, and were intended for use in conjunction with Extracts and Potions. Am I right in this assumption?

As far as I can tell, these abilities were intended for use in conjunction with potions only. Extracts are powerful because they're free and can use higher level spells than potions. But potions still remain of interest to Alchemists because they (unlike extracts) can be boosted by certain Alchemist abilities. This means the Brew Potion ability remains useful to them.

Example ruling:
Alchemist: Does the Accelerated Drinker feat from Cheliax, Empire of Devils allow a character to drink an alchemist extract as a move action?
No.

[Matthew Downie]

Enhance Potion would be pointless to use with Extracts because it raises a potion to your caster level and Extracts already operate at your caster level.

Extend Potion is explicitly stated as not working with Extracts.

Eternal Potion is just an upgraded form of Extend Potion, so would presumably not work with Extracts either.

[BlingerBunny]

The Investigator is SoL when it comes to potion-making though. And their Discovery options include those aforementioned Enhance, Extend, and Eternal. So that means I'll have to buy any potions I want extended, or effectively permanent. I can do that in conjunction with alchemical allocation, and add a Flask of Reconcoction to my shopping list.

I was already planning on buying a few potions that aren't on my class list anyways.