Question about stealth

[marvinandroid01]

I had a situation in a recent game that I thought was straightforward, but my party disagreed with vehemently; I'm hoping the community will be able to provide some wisdom for how the rules should work.

My players were fighting a stealthy foe, and all PCs and the NPC were in the effect of a smoke grenade (concealment, choking effect being ignored due to armor). The setting is on a space station, with the party around the corner from and ahead of the foe when the grenade went off, so the entire relevant battleground is in the concealment effect and the party could not see the foe when the grenade was thrown (he was behind them because of a separate successful stealth check). One party member went around the corner, failed perception to see the stealthy/concealed foe, and moved past the foe to provoke an attack of opportunity, which was made with a melee weapon. The rest of the party was out of sight of both the party member and enemy, and could not see what happened in any event. The next party member in the initiative came around the corner and moved to engage the enemy despite failing to perceive the foe through a perception check (the smoke still concealed everyone relevant).

To me, it seemed obvious that the attack of opportunity revealed the NPC to the victim, and arguably to everyone else who reasonably could have seen the attack, but everyone else who was unable to perceive what happened would still have to perceive the enemy to engage him. Two party members disagreed, relying on stealth being broken when an attack was made.

Their argument relied on a strict interpretation of the rules as written, mine on a common-sense (to me, at any rate) interpretation of the rules as intended, especially since perception is done individually. The party's interpretation goes to the absurdity that swinging a sword is no different than lighting oneself on fire as far as stealthiness goes, revealing oneself to all the world if they look even a few seconds later. My interpretation is meant to be more like the real world, enhancing subtlety and nuance, though I realize trying to introduce realism into a game with magic may be counterproductive.

So, what does the community think? Is stealth in Starfinder an all-or-nothing case, where either you have it or you don't and, if revealed, you are revealed to the entire world until circumstances permit hiding again from the entire world? Or is stealth a case-by-case consideration, and acts that break stealth only reveal the actor to those who could perceive the revealing act? I tried looking for something addressing a similar situation here or in Pathfinder, but found nothing.

I appreciate all thoughtful replies.

[MrTim]

Technically, by the rules as written, attacking doesn't break the Stealth if the attacker maintained cover for the whole attack. I think it's reasonable to say that the attacker temporarily lost cover for the opponent he/she/it attacked, though, requiring another Stealth check. Common sense and strict interpretation of the rules both should have allowed the attacker to maintain cover against the others.

[MARISbyMars]

Your common sense interpretation of the rules seems very reasonable to me. I think you made the right call; hopefully the players were able to accept your determination gracefully and move on with the story.

[Gilfalas]

Quote:

Regardless of the armor a character wears, smoke obscures vision, granting concealment to anyone within it.

To the characters who did not see the attack the enemy would still be fully stealthed. They failed their perceptions to know the target was there and the target had total concealment from them at the time as he was around a corner. As such, from what you typed, they were totally unaware of the enemy.

EVERYONE in the smoke has cover though. So that AoO from the enemy would have had the cover defensive benefits on the player as well.

Now if the group has a shared com channel and the player who was attacked shouted a warning they then would be alerted to the fact an enemy was around but they still would not know where. After coming around the corner they would get perception checks to note the location but if they fail those they would not know what square the enemy/ies are in but they are not longer totally unaware of the presence of an enemy.

I think the rules support your handling of the situation.

I have to wonder if there are personal Combat HUD's that can be purchased that track targets and allow you to note general locations of enemies and share them to your group in combat. Seems like well within the level of the settings augmented reality tech.

[marvinandroid01]

Thank you for your replies. I appreciate your feedback.

I like your idea about a combat HUD, Gilfalas. I have high hopes for the upcoming equipment guide or a dedicated combat book including something like that; I don't recall any of the Star Wars games having anything like that, but it's not far off from something that can be done today, such as OH-58s spotting for AH-64s. Would you have it work something like a hive-mind ability, where a target located by one is located by all with the HUD, or as a bonus and free perception check, or one for lower levels and one for higher?