Precocious companion archetype question.

[Hank Farris]

At 3rd level, a precocious companion gains twice as many bonus tricks as normal for an animal companion. A hunter’s animal companion can’t use the additional bonus tricks to learn hunter’s tricks. At 15th level, the DC of the Handle Animal check to push a precocious companion to perform an unlearned trick is only 15, instead of 25.

Ok does it mean at third level ONLY they get double the bonus tricks, or do they double the number of bonus tricks from third level on?

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

Double the bonus tricks from 3rd on; read as "As of 3rd level...."

[Hank Farris]

Ok second question.

At 4th or 7th level, whenever the precocious companion would normally gain the choice of a listed score advancement or a +2 bonus to Dexterity and Constitution, it instead gains a +2 bonus to its Intelligence score and a +4 bonus to +4 its Wisdom and Charisma scores.

Let’s use a Wolf for example

Wolf

STARTING STATISTICS

Size Medium; Speed 50 ft.; AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (1d6 plus trip); Ability Scores Str 13, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.

7TH-LEVEL ADVANCEMENT

Size Large; AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (1d8 plus trip); Ability Scores Str +8, Dex –2, Con +4.

So at 7th level what would his stats be?

[Wolventad]

Instead of increasing to Large size, gaining +2 natural aror, increasing the bite damage die, gaining Str +8, Con +4 and getting Dex -2, you instead get +2 Int, +4 Wis and +4 Cha

So it is now

Size Medium; Speed 50 ft.; AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (1d6 plus trip); Ability Scores Str 13, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 4, Wis 16, Cha 10; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.

Not including increases from the animal companion table.

[Hank Farris]

I'm thinking it would get

Size large, ac +2, attack bite 1d8 +trip, +2 int, + 4 wis and cha

I'm thinking it would swap out the str con and den adjustments for the int wis and cha. Or maybe adjust the str and con adjustments by two

Str +6 dex -2 con +2 int +2 wis +4 and +4.

This is for PFS play so I'm trying to get some sort of clarification before I play again.

[Mark Seifter]

Precocious companion only swaps out the ability score changes (like Hank's post just above mine). Feytouched swaps out the entire advancement, including size, nat armor, etc. You can see the very slight difference in wording between them, which helps indicate that precocious gets to keep the other stuff.

[Wolventad]

Oh, that's much better than how I was reading it, that makes a lot more sense balance-wise, I wasn't sure whether it was just an editing or a meaningful difference. Thanks Mark!

[Hank Farris]

Thanks mark!

[CptJackal]

Hey, hope you dont mind but i have another question about the archetype and i cant find another thread on the subject, at least not recent. When the animal get's the INT increase, how does that work for tricks? Does it continue to get 3 tricks per INT, or since it can now understand language do tricks no longer come into it? That case is what i heard on an older thread but i feel like if that was true the rest of the archetype would be a little pointless? Kill this if its not cool me asking the question, ill try starting a thread on it too.

[TrinitysEnd]

There is a blog post that talks about this. It gets 3 tricks per point of int. Also, it may learn a language, doesn't mean it knows one immediately. Furthermore, it doesn't get any other benefit from a high intelligence but for feats, potentially skills (if you can get to 10 int), and the tricks. Link to the Blog Post. Link to Dev response on tricks

[mdt]

Mark Seifter wrote:

Precocious companion only swaps out the ability score changes (like Hank's post just above mine). Feytouched swaps out the entire advancement, including size, nat armor, etc. You can see the very slight difference in wording between them, which helps indicate that precocious gets to keep the other stuff.

Which of Hank's 2 examples was correct with regards to the stat adjustments? He gave two examples.

ex 1 : +2 int, + 4 wis and cha

ex 2 : Str +6 dex -2 con +2 int +2 wis +4 and +4.

Example 2 feels more correct to represent an animal companion who's smart but not completely outside it's own species. Example 1 seems to make a mockery of calling something a member of that species (imagine a triceratops with a strength of 10, something the size of an elephant who can be pushed around by a rogue with 12 str).