[Champions of the Spheres] Homebrew Generic Gish Class

[Bardarok]

Hi All,

I got Drop Dead Studio's Champions of the Spheres a while back and I was a bit disappointed that there was no "generic" gish class similar to the Incanter in SoP and the Conscript in SoM. So I tried my hand at making one.

Gish

For the most part it is what you would get from a multiclassed Incanter 10/Conscript 10 but I wanted to streamline it a bit. So I used the blended training idea from champions of the spheres and I remixed the specializations so that instead of 5 specialization points for incanter and 5 for the conscript each of which only benefit from half of total character levels instead the gish gains 2 incanter specializations and 2 conscript specializations which progress with gish levels. This bars them from the 3 point sphere focus specializations which I think should be kept as conscript/incanter only.

I also added a 2 point specialization which allows them to use their gish level as their caster level or BAB for one magic or combat sphere. And another one that gives extra skills.

Please take a look and leave any suggestions or comments either here or on the document.

Thanks,
Bardarok

[GM Rednal]

How do you feel this class compares to the Elementalist? (Let's assume you're taking the 2-point specialization to get full progression in Destruction.) If I've got the numbers right, you'd be down about five feats in comparison... but you'd still have, like, twice as many talents. That's probably worth more than the Elementalist's class abilities.

[Bardarok]

GM Rednal wrote:

How do you feel this class compares to the Elementalist? (Let's assume you're taking the 2-point specialization to get full progression in Destruction.) If I've got the numbers right, you'd be down about five feats in comparison... but you'd still have, like, twice as many talents. That's probably worth more than the Elementalist's class abilities.

Good thought, I'll do a comparison.

Lets assume a elementalist like Gish 2, incanter points spent in destruction focus and 1 conscript point spent to have three good saves like the elementalist. So at this point BAB, saves, CL, skills/lvl, HD are all equal. Class skills are approximately equal.

I will now convert the remaining classs abilities and talents to equivalent feats, this is always an approximate thing.
assume one talent = 1 feat

Gish
Martial Tradition (4 feats)
30 Blended Talents (it's a ton but 30 is what both the incanter and conscript get)
2 Bonus Combat feats
Equivalent Feats: 36

Elementalist
15 magic talents
1 Bonus Destruction Talent
Evasion (1 feat)
5 Combat Feats
Favored Element (3 feats)
Dodge Bonus (2 feats)
Elemental Defense (3 feats)
Elemental Movement (3 feats)
Improved Evasion (1 feat)
Energy Body (2 Feats)
Equivalent Feats: 36

So in absolute power terms they are approximately balanced however the Gish has a lot more options for what it selects which makes it potentially more powerful in unpredictable ways. I think the spheres systems are balanced enough to prevent op combos but the GM would need to watch out for such things.

Maybe it would be better to nerf the Gish slightly by enforcing 15 magic talents and 15 combat talents instead of 30 blended talents?

EDIT: I updated the class so they get 10 combat talents 10 magic talents and 10 blended talents that can be spent on either instead of 30 blended talents. That should help a little bit by reducing the number of options they get.

[GM Rednal]

That's probably the minimum you should do.

Generally speaking, a flexible bonus is better than a static one. (This is why Human is a great choice for practically every build - it's nothing but flexible choices.) Classes that are theoretically equal in feats can be quite different, power-wise, when one of those classes can be customized and min-maxed much more effectively, rather than working within a framework.

You may also want to compare to the Mystic Magus, which is one of the most generic gish archetypes. (Albeit one designed to actually blend the systems - to wit, casting and using martial abilities at the same time, rather than simply possessing both.)

[Bardarok]

So I reduced the total number of talents. Now it is 10 combat talents, 10 magic talents, and 5 bonus talents of either type. Loosing 5 talents (compared to an incanter 10/ conscript 10 which is where I started from) should make up for the greater versatility.