One of my players may end up saddled with an artifact with a distinct drawback:
"whenever the wearer of the hand is within line of sight of a creature
with the giant subtype, he must succeed at DC 15 Will save or be compelled to attack the giant, as suggestion."
I have three questions about how this works:
First, since the effect is based on the suggestion spell, does the effect count as a spell-like ability for the purposes of saving throw bonuses?
Second, does line of sight mean that the PC must actually see the creature or merely be in a position to see it? That is, could the PC choose to avert its eyes or wear a blindfold to avoid seeing a giant and so trigger a save?
Third, does seeing multiple giants require multiple saving throws, or just one? Are saving throws required every round or merely upon first seeing a giant?
I don't think so, it's not saying it casts suggestion, Though the GM can easily change it to be casting suggestion OR that the DC is a mind-affecting compulsion enchantment effect like suggestion.
It doesn't say if the wearer SEES a giant, just if they are within line of sight, So eye aversion won't work.
It seems to be one save per giant to attack that giant. And it's either one save and they fight till the giant is dead is what "attack giant" means, OR one save every round cause "attack giant" means to hit it once. Again the GM can throw in saying that if you save you have 24 hour immunity for THAT giant as per other creatures abilities.
That is actually fairly bizarre in that suggestion doesn't have a whole lot of guidelines, so saying 'as suggestion' isn't terribly useful. Suggestion does say "The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the activity sound reasonable." which is the biggest limitation in the spell, but unless you have left something out, that doesn't seem to apply since nothing is 'speaking' to you. While the mind effecting tag on the spell may be relevant, the language dependent doesn't seem to be.
So basically, as suggestion tells you nothing except, that unless the artifact can speak, it can't work as suggestion.
It doesn't say if the wearer SEES a giant, just if they are within line of sight, So eye aversion won't work.
I'm not disputing your conclusion, but it does create the possibility of being compelled to attack a creature the PC is unaware of; say if the PC failed to spot the giant or the giant is invisible. That's hard to make sense of.
unless you have left something out, that doesn't seem to apply since nothing is 'speaking' to you. While the mind effecting tag on the spell may be relevant, the language dependent doesn't seem to be. So basically, as suggestion tells you nothing except, that unless the artifact can speak, it can't work as suggestion.
Not leaving anything relevant out. The item isn't sentient nor does it speak. I guess what's intended is that the effect is similar to a suggestion if not exactly the same. Just have to figure out what that means exactly.
Well, we are outside of rules, but here is what I would probably do.
1) It is a mind effecting will save, but not a spell or spell like ability.
2) It triggers when the PC becomes aware of a giant (if he doesn't know it is there, it won't trigger but he can't 'avert his eyes or anything like that).
3) If the item is powerful, I'd have the suggestion be more of a fight the giant until one of you is dead' type of thing, if it isn't that powerful, I'd probably only have it require a single attack, and then the PC is free to do what they want, although after attacking a giant they might not have much choice. In either case, it would only be a single save for that giant (for that encounter at least, if they meet the same giant later it could still trigger).
4) Multiple giants: I can see two ways. One is the obvious one save per giant, but I don't love that as the effect of attacking one is probably the same as attacking all. I might instead take a page from how poisons work, with a +2 DC for each additional giant in an encounter, so 3 Giants would be DC 19 instead of DC 15, but it would only be a single roll and would apply to all of the giants as a group. I would probably put a cap on the DC, maybe 23 so that encountering an army of giants wouldn't be an impossible DC.
Once again, these aren't rules, just how I would run that item for play-ability and to keep the theme.
so I guess the real question is this.
Is this an actual published item in a module or something? If so then you might be able to get clearer answers, but in the end you need to be able to have the GM clarify how it works for their game.
If this is an item made up by the GM cause it'd be cool, the they need to be able to clarify for you.
Is this an actual published item in a module or something?
It's Nargrym's Steel Hand; an artifact from the Giantslayer AP.
you need to be able to have the GM clarify how it works for their game.
I'm the GM, looking for clarifications.
Another question is how to resolve the issue of the suggestion spell's description: "Asking the creature to do some obviously harmful act automatically negates the effect of the spell." So, if attacking one or more giants, how "obviously harmful" must the situation become before the suggestion is negated?