Question about Sadomasochism


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

The spell states

Sadomasochism Description wrote:
While subject to this spell, any time you are dealt damage, your attacker must roll damage for the attack twice and take the higher roll, but the attacker must also succeed at a Will saving throw or become demoralized for 1 round. Each time you deal damage to a creature demoralized by this spell, you roll damage twice and take the higher result.

I assume that the lower damage roll is taken by the other person. Is this correct, or is the lower roll ignored? Also, does this apply to spell damage as well or just melee and ranged weapon attacks?


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

The lower damage roll is discarded in both cases (the attacker's damage roll and your damage roll).

So long as YOU are the one doing the damage, it doesn't matter. The only possible exception I can think of would be a dancing weapon or perhaps spiritual weapon.


It matters; you don't get any benefit until you've been damaged by an attacker. The idea is that you purposely take more damage to demonstrate your love of pain to the opponent.

Our CotCT GM roleplayed this to . . . disturbing effect. I don't know that I could run a character like this for an entire campaign, but some folks ought to have a lot of fun with it. (Too bad reincarnated druids don't get it as a spell!)


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
SlimGauge wrote:
So long as YOU are the one doing the damage, it doesn't matter. The only possible exception I can think of would be a dancing weapon or perhaps spiritual weapon.

To clarify: Once the condition is met (your opponent has been demoralized by failing the save after attacking you), it doesn't matter HOW you're doing damage to them (spell or melee weapon or ranged weapon or unarmed strike), just that it's YOU doing the damage.

Grand Lodge

So I am looking at this for my Life Oracle in Hell's Vengeance adventure path. Her build is around channeling positive, healing, buffing, and removing conditions.

Her background story on the other hand is dark, focusing on childhood abuse, murder, and prostitution. She has become a sadomasochistic, but more about the sadistic part.

I think in the first 6 character levels she has used here physical weapons twice and does not have any offensive spells.

The question I guess is taking this spell abusive if I don't actually attack and cause damage to an enemy that was effected by the spell. For the spell to work properly do I have to cause damage. It does not appear so.

I am really only looking at the spell as a roleplay flavour thing.


SlimGauge wrote:
SlimGauge wrote:
So long as YOU are the one doing the damage, it doesn't matter. The only possible exception I can think of would be a dancing weapon or perhaps spiritual weapon.
To clarify: Once the condition is met (your opponent has been demoralized by failing the save after attacking you), it doesn't matter HOW you're doing damage to them (spell or melee weapon or ranged weapon or unarmed strike), just that it's YOU doing the damage.

Ah, sorry! This is absolutely correct.


Olmac wrote:

So I am looking at this for my Life Oracle in Hell's Vengeance adventure path. Her build is around channeling positive, healing, buffing, and removing conditions.

Her background story on the other hand is dark, focusing on childhood abuse, murder, and prostitution. She has become a sadomasochistic, but more about the sadistic part.

I think in the first 6 character levels she has used here physical weapons twice and does not have any offensive spells.

The question I guess is taking this spell abusive if I don't actually attack and cause damage to an enemy that was effected by the spell. For the spell to work properly do I have to cause damage. It does not appear so.

I am really only looking at the spell as a roleplay flavour thing.

The usual use of the spell isn't abusive, so self-nerfing it by only using the "masochism" part of the benefits and eschewing the "sadism" part certainly shouldn't be either. You don't have to damage the enemy to demoralize them, but you have to damage the enemy to, well, do extra damage.


More importantly... wtf does demoralize mean in this context? What does this spell even do, aside from letting you deal extra damage? Demoralized is not a condition.

Demoralize is a use of the intimidate skill, and a psionic power, and included in the name of a bunch of fear effects...

Grand Lodge

It means exactly the same thing as what happens in the examples you listed. A demoralized character gains the shaken condition.

From Intimidate under Demoralize Opponent wrote:
If you are successful, the target is shaken for one round.
Shaken wrote:
A shaken character takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. Shaken is a less severe state of fear than frightened or panicked.


"Demoralized" is (somewhat unfortunately) used occasionally in print as a shorthand for "demoralized per the Intimidate skill". The victim is shaken, but this won't upgrade to frightened if the victim is Intimidated/demoralized again (or vice versa).

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