style feats, always need to be in style?

[Chess Pwn]

So I'm getting rather tired of the wording they are using with style feats and hope to clear something up.
Many Many MANY style feats and feats that require style feats are written in this manner.

You can do/have X. While using style also do/have Y.

Is X always active because of having the feat and only Y needs the style to be active to work or does X and Y need you to be in the style to work?

style rules:

As a swift action, you can enter the stance employed by the fighting style a style feat embodies. Although you cannot use a style feat before combat begins, the style you are in persists until you spend a swift action to switch to a different combat style. You can use a feat that has a style feat as a prerequisite only while in the stance of the associated style. For example, if you have feats associated with Mantis Style and Tiger Style, you can use a swift action to adopt Tiger Style at the start of one turn, and then can use other feats that have Tiger Style as a prerequisite. By using another swift action at the start of your next turn, you could adopt Mantis Style and use other feats that have Mantis Style as a prerequisite.

The examples I have off-hand are the Mobile Bulwark Style, Monkey Style, Snake Style, Crane Style, and Boar Style

[blahpers]

(deleted original because fail)

Provided you're talking about the style feats themselves and not the feats further down the chain, you are correct--you only have to be in the style to gain a benefit from the feat if the feat states that you do. So most of the style feats will give you an ability that you have all the time and an ability that you have only while in the style. The feats further down the chain only function while using the style, full-stop.

[Chess Pwn]

blahpers wrote:

(deleted original because fail)

Provided you're talking about the style feats themselves and not the feats further down the chain, you are correct--you only have to be in the style to gain a benefit from the feat if the feat states that you do. So most of the style feats will give you an ability that you have all the time and an ability that you have only while in the style. The feats further down the chain only function while using the style, full-stop.

part of the issue is mobile fortress though that has the same wording.

While using a tower shield, you add half of the shield’s bonus to AC (including its enhancement bonus) to your touch AC and take only a –1 penalty on attack rolls because of the shield’s encumbrance. While using Mobile Bulwark Style, whenever you would use a tower shield to gain total cover, you also grant any adjacent ally total cover against attacks passing through the selected edge of your space.

Which makes it seem like this one also has that dual nature then.

[Bloodrealm]

Yup, that means you don't have to spend that swift action to get into style unless you're using the shield for cover. You might as well get into style, of course, but the option is there. Some other Style tree feats grant things like bonus uses of other feats or class features per day, so there's precedent for not everything being "when using X style."

[blahpers]

Chess Pwn wrote:

blahpers wrote:

(deleted original because fail)

Provided you're talking about the style feats themselves and not the feats further down the chain, you are correct--you only have to be in the style to gain a benefit from the feat if the feat states that you do. So most of the style feats will give you an ability that you have all the time and an ability that you have only while in the style. The feats further down the chain only function while using the style, full-stop.

part of the issue is mobile fortress though that has the same wording.

While using a tower shield, you add half of the shield’s bonus to AC (including its enhancement bonus) to your touch AC and take only a –1 penalty on attack rolls because of the shield’s encumbrance. While using Mobile Bulwark Style, whenever you would use a tower shield to gain total cover, you also grant any adjacent ally total cover against attacks passing through the selected edge of your space.

Which makes it seem like this one also has that dual nature then.

Looks that way. Maybe I'm missing the issue.

[Chess Pwn]

blahpers wrote:

Chess Pwn wrote:

blahpers wrote:

(deleted original because fail)

Provided you're talking about the style feats themselves and not the feats further down the chain, you are correct--you only have to be in the style to gain a benefit from the feat if the feat states that you do. So most of the style feats will give you an ability that you have all the time and an ability that you have only while in the style. The feats further down the chain only function while using the style, full-stop.

part of the issue is mobile fortress though that has the same wording.

While using a tower shield, you add half of the shield’s bonus to AC (including its enhancement bonus) to your touch AC and take only a –1 penalty on attack rolls because of the shield’s encumbrance. While using Mobile Bulwark Style, whenever you would use a tower shield to gain total cover, you also grant any adjacent ally total cover against attacks passing through the selected edge of your space.

Which makes it seem like this one also has that dual nature then.

Looks that way. Maybe I'm missing the issue.

"You can use a feat that has a style feat as a prerequisite only while in the stance of the associated style."

this seems to be saying that you can't use it at all unless you're in the style.
Is this feat more specific and overriding that?
is this feat unfortunately written strange and does nothing unless in the style?
some other option?

[blahpers]

Ah, Mobile Fortress. Yeah, that one's boned unless you're in-style. (For some reason I though you'd quoted Mobile Bulwark Style, which has no style prerequisite.)

[Bloodrealm]

Ah, right, I had forgotten that bit of text. Since Mobile Fortress doesn't specifically override that and the feature is something that has to be used (as opposed to the "+1 use of X per day" type), you can only use it in Mobile Bulwark Style.