Star Shaman, "In Space"?

[Boojumbunn]

I have been unable to find a definition of "In Space" for when a Star Shamans fly in space ability manifests. For example, taken from the current game I am in, my character is in a space ship and gravity in the space ship has gone out. I am not on a planet, I am in a vehicle in space with no gravity. Would I be able to fly? Or is only when the ship is gone and I am in vaccume that I can fly?

Boojum the brown bunny

[Keshon]

Good question! Star Shaman isn't a terribly powerful connection in general, so I'd probably rule that you can fly in any zero-g situation, not just if you're in vacuum. But it's definitely a gray area.

[Boojumbunn]

I know.. it's a funny situation. We talk about submariners being in the ocean and astronauts being in space.. even though they have vehicles around them. I can also see a Star Shaman not being in space unless they are in it like a swimmer is in the ocean, as in not in a boat. It would be nice if there was a definition in the glossary or something as to what "in space" means, but I can't find it. I'm hoping someone here can "reveal the hidden meaning." :D

[Metaphysician]

Is there any reason this would make the game unbalanced? Is there any way this doesn't fit the common obvious intent of the power?

Since I don't see how the answer to both questions isn't "no", then yes, it works fine. A space ship in space is still in space.

[Xenocrat]

Metaphysician wrote:

Is there any reason this would make the game unbalanced? Is there any way this doesn't fit the common obvious intent of the power?

Since I don't see how the answer to both questions isn't "no", then yes, it works fine. A space ship in space is still in space.

A planet is in space, too. What’s the dividing line?

[Boojumbunn]

Yeah, that's the hard part. If you are in a space suit, are you in space? How is a space suit different than a space ship? If you are wearing clothing, are you in space? If you are in a ship that has been cut in half by a laser, are you in space? If you are in a ship that just has a little hole in it and all the air is gone, are you in space?

I was hoping that the rules drew the line someplace... since there are arguments for a person being in space pretty much everywhere.

Boojum the brown bunny

[KingOfAnything]

I ruled that Walk the Void applies whenever the character is in a zero-g vacuum.

[Boojumbunn]

KingOfAnything wrote:

I ruled that Walk the Void applies whenever the character is in a zero-g vacuum.

So then the way to stop a Star Shaman in space is to cast Life Bubble on him. NO save, lasts all day, puts a bubble of air around them. Now they can't fly anymore. :D

Boojum

[KingOfAnything]

Boojumbunn wrote:

KingOfAnything wrote:

I ruled that Walk the Void applies whenever the character is in a zero-g vacuum.

So then the way to stop a Star Shaman in space is to cast Life Bubble on him. NO save, lasts all day, puts a bubble of air around them. Now they can't fly anymore. :D

Boojum

There is a save on life bubble.

And "tolerable living conditions" for a Star Shaman need not include an atmosphere.

[Boojumbunn]

KingOfAnything wrote:

There is a save on life bubble.

And "tolerable living conditions" for a Star Shaman need not include an atmosphere.

Ah, you are correct, there is a save. Thanks for pointing that out, my character has the spell...

But I stand by the rest... that since it says the spell enables the creature to breath freely, I'm pretty sure what is inside the bubble isn't vacuum anymore. By your ruling, if you surround someone with any gas, they are not in a vacuum anymore so can not fly. It seems odd, but it's your game and, in all honestly, it probably has never come up.

But it's starting to look like there isn't an actual rule, so I'll just have to wait until my GM posts back.

Boojum

[Captain Zoom]

Our group's GM has decided that my Star Shaman can use Walk the Void anytime he is in zero-g or micro-gravity. So he can use it on a ship when the gravity is off/fails, or on or around an asteroid (which has micro gravity). Vacuum/air is not an issue with the way we're doing it. In theory, you could use it on a planet's surface if you have some sort of zero-gravity field in place.

Mostly, it just lets my Star Shaman maneuver in zero-g or micro-gravity without having to make all those pesky Athletics/Acrobatics rolls and dealing with the other annoyances that come with that environment.

After all, it's only 20' flight... seems like it's geared more to maneuvering in zero-g rather than travelling significant distances.

In other words, just make a reasonable decision and stick to it. I doubt it's ever going to be overpowered one way or the other.

[EC Gamer Guy]

I would definitely say this is a zero-gravity ability.

Not so sure about the vacuum part since that is a bit subjective, space does have gas clouds. You cut the air pressure in a ship by 90% and most creatures start bleeding profusely and stop breathing, but it's not nearly a complete vacuum.

[Metaphysician]

Xenocrat wrote:

Metaphysician wrote:

Is there any reason this would make the game unbalanced? Is there any way this doesn't fit the common obvious intent of the power?

Since I don't see how the answer to both questions isn't "no", then yes, it works fine. A space ship in space is still in space.

A planet is in space, too. What’s the dividing line?

Common sense?

It would hardly break the game to go "Where does the flight apply? Anytime your in microgravity. Where does the life support apply? Any time your subject to low pressure, lack of air, and extreme temperatures and radiation."

[Ravingdork]

Er...star flight doesn't say anything about needing to be in space. You just need to be in your starlight form.

Edit: Never mind. You're talking about the Walk the Void class ability.

[Moonwalker]

In my humble opinion, reasonable conclusions are not drawn from physics but from semantics and thereupon based deduction necessary for Starfinder.

Question 1: What does it do?

Semantics 1:

Starfinder Core Rulebook, page 88 wrote:

You are immune to the harmful environmental effects of outer space and vacuum. You also gain a fly speed of 20 feet while in space. [...]

Conclusion 1: You do not suffer from certain Conditions or Environmental Rules such as Off-Kilter or Suffocation, and you can fly.

Question 2: Where does it take effect?

Semantics 2:

Collins English Dictionary wrote:

Space is the area beyond the Earth's atmosphere, where the stars and planets are.

The six astronauts on board will spend ten days in space.
[...]
...outer space.

Conclusion 2: You benefit from it if you are in actual outer space or in comparable circumstances such as Zero Gravity.

As always, the Game Master is the final arbiter - for better or worse!