How much would a downloaded data set cost

[pauljathome]

I'm building a knowledge based character. I want to download a significant amount of information onto my computer so that I can take 20 even when not connected to an infosphere.

In todays world that is actually fairly cheap. A few terrabytes of information at most. So, presumably this should be possible in Starfinder.

The skills section says you can take 20 on skill checks "...or a downloaded data set (see page 430).

Page 430 does say that all major ports "host basic encyclopedia-like data sets"

What Tier computer would I require (Personally I'd put it at about Tier 1, equivalent to a high end laptop today).?

How much would it cost?

The computers section has a cost for secure data but I don't care at all if the data is secure, I just want access to it. The example says "up to 1,000 credits" but that is for some VERY expensive memory (it costs 10 credits to store an employees data base which HAS to be less than 1 Gig)

[Claxon]

It sounds like you're basically asking to download the internet.

Which for reference is about 1200 petabytes of information.

Really, we simply need more rules clarification on what a "downloaded data set" is and what it does.

It sounds a lot like the option you had to check books/librariers for information in Pathfinder.

[Lane_S]

I would stick with using Secure Data mod. You may not care but the data set creator may, in fact it may only be available as a SD module.

Cost would depend on subject, how broad the subject and how widely used.

Your Laser Rifle may come with an operator and maintenance manual on SD. A manufacturers data base for all models may cost 3cr, all common models for 15cr and extensive technical specs for 100cr. Same could apply to armor.

It's not uncommon for specialist reference books to cost over $100, Text books even more. I would suggest each specialty of a science skill, mysticism, engineering or profession require a 10cr SD module. The specific data set should be in the 25cr/ rank for a science specialty or profession. Engineering and mysticism would be 100cr/ rank. I would also limit players to using 1.5x the ranks of the database.

General specs/ ID guide on vehicles, starships etc would probably cost 100cr. A database used to identify starship class based on sensor data, detailed performance and design data and list of registered uses may cot 500cr. Full maintenance and repair manuals for a starship could cost 100cr x size.

For Culture checks a general language, social and history overview of single common race or planet should be 10cr. You could also limit this to ranks as well at 5cr/ rank. Broad spectrum sets like "races of the Pact Worlds" may cost 100cr. Lesser known races or planets may cost 2-5 times as much. Information on a newly discovered planet or a closed society may cost upward of 1000cr.

Remember, just because information is available for free on the datasphere does not mean you can download all of it for free. A site may allow free access for limited use but require subscription fees for extensive or offline use.

Also consider how these checks will affect game play. Some of these prices may sound high until they are used. Answering "What model security robot does Abadar plant #87 use?" could easily pay for the database.

As for the Computer, a tier 1 should be enough.

pauljathome wrote:

(it costs 10 credits to store an employees data base which HAS to be less than 1 Gig)

You would be surprised at how much data one person can generate. Performance reviews, payroll data, training records all add up quickly.

[Charre]

I see literally no reason you should have to pay anything for it if you want it unsecured. If it is available for free online and you have a computer skill, you can store the information on your computer for free, regardless of whether the operator of the site wants you to be able to do that. This is all trivially easy to do, you would just need to specify what specific thing you were getting info on and obviously the GM could rule that some info isn't available (even taking 20 on the knowledge check doesn't mean you know everything). So if you want to be able to look up culture and profession info for your icon (for example) you just store the data on your computer, this would take some time, but honestly there is no reason you wouldn't have that info preloaded before adventuring begins as it is information vitally important to your livelihood. Asking you to pay for it is just "I don't understand how computers work" stuff.

[Matthew Downie]

Charre wrote:

If it is available for free online and you have a computer skill, you can store the information on your computer for free, regardless of whether the operator of the site wants you to be able to do that.

Depends on how seriously people take copyright violation in this setting. There could be priests of Abadar using divination to track down those who violate the sanctity of DRM.

[MattZ]

Matthew Downie wrote:

Charre wrote:

If it is available for free online and you have a computer skill, you can store the information on your computer for free, regardless of whether the operator of the site wants you to be able to do that.

Depends on how seriously people take copyright violation in this setting. There could be priests of Abadar using divination to track down those who violate the sanctity of DRM.

And I thought the RIAA was scary. No one expects the Copyright Inquisition!

[Charre]

The effort to reward for enforcing copyright on publicly available information makes that nonsensical, and people would figure out ways to fool it quickly (admittedly they wouldn't be free to develop) so that sounds like handwavy GM dickishness. To make you pay like 10-100credits.

[pauljathome]

Claxon wrote:

It sounds like you're basically asking to download the internet.

Which for reference is about 1200 petabytes of information.

Really, we simply need more rules clarification on what a "downloaded data set" is and what it does.

It sounds a lot like the option you had to check books/librariers for information in Pathfinder.

No, I want to download a small portion of the internet. Arguably, being able to take 20 on culture checks on all known species would be the internet. But actual sciency stuff would be a lot, lot, lot less.

And right now today 1200 petabytes is on the order of $100 million (or so says Quora :-)). Somewhat less. Obviously its pretty arbitrary how much better technology is in Starfinder but if anything approximating Moores Law still exists that $100 million very, very rapidly shrinks down.

You also rapidly hit the issue that if the data is much bigger than that (Because, you know, galaxy) then a human mind wouldn't be able to hold any significant fraction of it and therefore no skill check should be allowed at all without access to reference material.

[Lane_S]

Charre wrote:

I see literally no reason you should have to pay anything for it if you want it unsecured.

The memory itself will have a cost even if not secured. Given that secure data modules are as low as 1 credit the security part is negligible.

Charre wrote:

If it is available for free online and you have a computer skill, you can store the information on your computer for free, regardless of whether the operator of the site wants you to be able to do that

What you just described is a skill check. Soldiers need ammo, engineering checks need tools. It sounds to me like you want your tools for free in a place not normally available.

Charre wrote:

Asking you to pay for it is just "I don't understand how computers work" stuff.

Expecting it for free is just "I don't understand how research or the real world work" stuff.

First of all, not everything is available for free. There is a lot of stuff for free but a) some if it is conflicting data and b) less commonly sought information is often behind a pay wall. For more extensive or detailed information you often need to access professional journals or research papers. Some papers may be posted for free if you know where to find them and actually know to look for it. More often you have to pay for the convenience of single source and easy cross reference. There is also an issue with scope of knowledge. Maybe everything you want is free, spread over 37000 different sites. In cases like that you may not even know enough to know what sites to download. But if you are willing to pay you can get what you need from a single source.

As a GM if you asked for all that data for free I would require you to spend the time and make multiple hacking checks for every subject you wanted. I would place a cap on the level of information available based on those checks.

[pauljathome]

Lane_S wrote:

The memory itself will have a cost even if not secured. Given that secure data modules are as low as 1 credit the security part is negligible.

I vehemently disagree. 1 credit gets you enough data for "a video log, a financial ledger, or a building schematic". That is, at most, a few 10's of meg of storage.

Storage today costs pennies per gigabyte.

1 credit is insanely expensive. That security has to be almost all of the cost

[Lane_S]

One credit is actually quite cheap. I would compare it to a $5 thumb drive. At that price point packaging, shipping and retail markup are several times the cost of production.

You do realize that you are arguing about the cost of a couple bullets on something that would allow you to make a check without rolling in a situation that would not normally allow that check.