Cognatogen


Rules Questions


Craft time...

I cannot for the life of me find an official ruling on the crafting time of a cognatogen.
Could someone please link me to the actual text that states how long it will take an Alchemist to craft 1 dose of cognatogen please? And thank you.

Grand Lodge

My educated guess? One hour, as with mutagen.

Sczarni

1 hour.

Cognatogen wrote:
Otherwise, this ability works just like the mutagen ability (including the natural armor bonus).

Furthermore, when you examine the text of Greater Cognatogen, it even refers to it as a mutagen.

Shadow Lodge

Nefreet wrote:
Furthermore, when you examine the text of Greater Cognatogen, it even refers to it as a mutagen.

That's just poor editing from copy/pasting Greater Mutagen; cognatogens work like mutagens, but they only count as mutagens for limitations and the two specified items listed in the Cognatogen discovery: the Infuse Mutagen discovery and the Persistent Mutagen class feature. Other things that effect mutagens, like Feral Mutagen, don't work with Cognatogens.

Sczarni

They are mutagens that alter different stats.

Obviously not everything that works with regular mutagens will work with cognatogens; some consideration will need to be applied since not every corner case can be spelled out given the limited space.

And they still take an hour to create.

Shadow Lodge

Nefreet wrote:

They are mutagens that alter different stats.

Obviously not everything that works with regular mutagens will work with cognatogens; some consideration will need to be applied since not every corner case can be spelled out given the limited space.

And they still take an hour to create.

No, they are not.

Ultimate Magic wrote:
Cognatogen (Su): The alchemist gains the ability to create a cognatogen, a mutagen-like mixture that heightens one mental ability score at the expense of a physical ability score. If the cognatogen enhances his Intelligence, it applies a penalty to his Strength. If it enhances his Wisdom, it applies a penalty to his Dexterity. If it enhances his Charisma, it applies a penalty to his Constitution. Otherwise, this ability works just like the mutagen ability (including the natural armor bonus). Anytime the alchemist would prepare a mutagen, he may instead prepare a cognatogen. All limitations of mutagens apply to cognatogens as if they were the same substance—an alchemist can only maintain one mutagen or cognatogen at a time, a cognatogen that is not in an alchemist's possession becomes inert, drinking a cognatogen makes a non-alchemist sick, and so on. When the effect of the cognatogen ends, the alchemist takes 2 points of ability damage to the ability score penalized by the cognatogen. The infuse mutagen discovery and the persistent mutagen class ability apply to cognatogens.

Bolded the only parts where cognatogens are treated like mutagens.

Cognatogens are only treated like mutagens for the purposes of limitations, Infuse Mutagen, and Persistent Mutagen; for all other purposes, they are not mutagens, and anything else that effects mutagens, such as the Elemental Mutagen, Feral Mutagen, or Purging Mutagen alchemist discoveries, do not affect cognatogens in any way, because they are neither a limitation, nor either of the two listed features.

But yes, they take an hour to create (hence the "anytime the alchemist would prepare a mutagen" part I bolded).


SCPRedMage wrote:
Nefreet wrote:

They are mutagens that alter different stats.

Obviously not everything that works with regular mutagens will work with cognatogens; some consideration will need to be applied since not every corner case can be spelled out given the limited space.

And they still take an hour to create.

No, they are not...

I know this is a dead FAQ, but I'm new to this and I have a question:

Does the Altered State Fiendish Obedience Evangelist Boon of Haagenti therefore not apply to cognatogens? Or the Beastmorph archetype or many discoveries for that matter?

I don't understand why cognatogen would have ability damage and all the limitations of mutagens without the benefits if they otherwise work "...just like the mutagen ability." Naming that Infuse Mutagen works on cognatogens does not automatically preclude other abilities/discoveries from doing the same. In fact, I would think it would be a precedent for other abilities to do the same when no language (clearly) says otherwise.

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