Can you make an effective non-weapon fighting inquisitor? Every inquisitor I have seen is a sort of divine gish. (What I always thought the paladin should be in fact.) Using the class abilities and spells to buff their weapon combat ability. The 'Hammer' role if you will. But is that necessarily the only way they can be built?
Inquisitors have great skill points, solo teamwork feats, some judgements are defensive or affect your casting, pretty darn good spell selection, domain, monster knowledge, etc…
I have been considering using an inquisitor for a scout and ‘Anvil’ type role. Learning debuff and control spells (maybe a few buff and healing for secondary role as 'Arm') skills and traits into stealth and disable. Weapon work (the 'Hammer' role) would definitely be a tertiary capability. They don’t have a huge number of spells like a full caster, but a debuffer/controller usually only uses 1 or 2 in a combat. Seems like it should have enough for that after a few levels.
Have you seen anyone try that? How did it work out?
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I think it becomes an issue of "if you're not attacking, what are you doing?" There are certainly a few spells that could help in the debuff department, but you don't have nearly enough to cast every round. And the other stuff you mentioned - teamwork feats, skill points, monster knowledges - are good out of combat or used to help in melee, but don't take actions themselves. Meanwhile, your Bane ability is a powerful offensive asset that only works with weapon attacks.
An Inquisitor can do a LOT of things out of combat, but in combat I don't think there are many viable alternatives to picking up a weapon. Combat Maneuvers rely on BAB and spell DCs rely on spell level, and you're a bit lacking in both departments. You don't have to build an Inquisitor primarily for combat, but combat is a BIG part of Pathfinder, and if your character isn't at least competent, you're going to have a bad time.
Hmm... Maybe you could ask your GM to let you take the Helpful trait, giving +4 on your Aid Anothers... but without the Gloves of Arcane Striking, that won't scale with your level.
Well, like I said, most debuff/control casters I've seen don't cast every round anyway until they are really high level and have plenty of spells to burn. More than any other caster type, they are the ones that always seem to have a bunch of spells left at the end of the day. So it seems like I would have enough for that. I just wouldn't have a bunch left at the end of the day.
Yes, after I had cast a debuff or 2 and maybe a buff (probably the buff would be from a wand), then I would start plinking away with a bow or stabbing with a long spear. But that wouldn't be the focus of the build. He should be nearly as effective as any other primarily caster build at that.
Spell DC's seemed to me like the most worrisome. My DC's will be down by 1 or 2 from say a cleric. Not a horrific amount, but noticeable. But I would think the judgment that increases the spell DC would make up for that in the main fights.
That was my thinking anyway, for what it's worth.
The big thing is, for buffing up your party the only thing different in your entire build is what spells you pick. Debuffing is a little different, since you have to generate a good DC, but buffing doesn't really take anything at all.
So the smart thing to do is create a combat capable inquisitor, one who could 'hammer' if you like that term, but for the first couple of rounds of combat you instead cast buff spells to help you teammates before you wade in. A reach inquisitor, using the same concept as a reach cleric, would probably be pretty good here. Another viable choice would be archer.
I don't think the inquisitor spell list and spells known can really support being the controller.
Probably the most effective thing an inquisitor could do in a lot of situations is being the information guy. Figuring out weaknesses and special defenses of the creatures you meet quickly can change a battle dramatically.
Being a Samsaran for Mystic Past Life would be a big help in expanding your spell list to handle more of a caster role. Druid spell list is probably your best bet for nabbing some battlefield control spells and such.
You can use the solo teamwork feats for Lookout, Stealth Synergy (or whatever it's called), and Tandem Trip to be a good scout and halfway-decent tripper. Caves subdomain as your domain choice will further help with scouting/sneaking in dungeon environments.
I don't think there's much you can translate the judgements into other roles with, other than more attack bonus for tripping...
You can make a high wisdom "casting focused" Inquisitor, you'll just be really subpar, it's not what the class is designed for. If you do so, it definitely helps to get a weapon with the Guided property if you can. It's really dumb that you're practically a cleric but still need to dip cleric to qualify for Guided Hand feat, but that's how it is.... So ask for a guided weapon.
Our group is starting to use the Hammer, Anvil, and Arm terms for the combat roles from the guide Forge of Combat in the Guide to the Guides. that's where I'm getting that. (I highly recommend if you haven't read it.)
Yeah, the inquisitor doesn't have too many control spells but does have some pretty good debuff spells. Both are pretty much the same basic 'Anvil' role in combat. Interfering with what the bad guy wants to do.
I agree buffer would be easiest, but I don't really want to be a primary buffer. My last 2 characters have been that and I feel the need to get out of that role. We usually have a surplus of characters that will fill the 'Hammer' role. From the table talk, I don't think we are going to have anyone that wants to be a scout or a wizard/magus to have intelligence with all the monster knowledge.
If I can't get inquisitor to work, I will probably look at a ninja/sorc/arcane trickster type of build.
Being a Samsaran for Mystic Past Life would be a big help in expanding your spell list to handle more of a caster role. Druid spell list is probably your best bet for nabbing some battlefield control spells and such...
I didn't think of that. That's an excellent idea.
.... If you do so, it definitely helps to get a weapon with the Guided property if you can....
What book is that from, I don't remember that one.
Dimensional Anchor, Dispel Magic, and Blistering Invective all help my inquisitor do things other than 'hit things with style'. Litany of Sloth can be helpful too, preventing a target from taking attacks of opportunity for a round.
It helps he's a half orc, the alt favored class option means that with no more investment than 1 skill point a level he's got a +36 intimidate at level 16 despite having an 8 Cha.
What book is that from, I don't remember that one.
It's from PF 10: A History of Ashes. Which, despite being a paizo product, is technically for 3.5E D&D. But...PF is supposed to be compatible with 3E, and it is a paizo product. Hence why I said, "if you can." Getting it allowed can be tough depending on how strict or open your DM is.
What book is that from, I don't remember that one.It's from PF 10: A History of Ashes. Which, despite being a paizo product, is technically for 3.5E D&D. But...PF is supposed to be compatible with 3E, and it is a paizo product. Hence why I said, "if you can." Getting it allowed can be tough depending on how strict or open your DM is.
He's fairly open as long as it doesn't seem too stupidly powerful.
Well, Mystic Past Life *is* stupidly powerful. But it's stupidly powerful when it's used as a Wizard, Druid, Cleric, etc... to plunder the Bard, Inquisitor, Summoner, etc... lists. Much less so in the reverse.
Actually you can find samsaran and mystic past life in advanced race guide-o.
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Well, being a combat buffer/utility guy can be done, but it takes a bit of work on an Inquisitor. If you can gain access to the Madness sub-domain, you get one of the best bad-touch abilities IN THE GAME, even if you don't get the domain spells. Other than that, there are other useful things you can do, like the Steal, Disarm, and Dirty Trick combat maneuvers. Solo teamwork feats mean you can take something like Coordinated Maneuvers for an additional +2 bonus to all combat maneuvers, and a timely disarm or dirty trick can REALLY hamper your foe.
Even if you're not planning on doing much fighting, you might consider having at least a one-handed weapon available. You can get the Menacing enchantment to give flanking allies an extra +2 bonus to attack rolls while doing your bad touches (heck, a gauntlet would count as a weapon if you want to truly seem "unarmed"). I would also recommend the Branded for Retribution feat. You can make a melee touch attack by expending bane rounds to give your allies that bane bonus against the enemy. It's a pretty sick additional +2 to attack, +2d6+2 damage. You could also take the Spell Bane feat to make your spells harder to resist while using your Bane class feature. The Extended Bane feat would also go a long way towards maintaining your uses as efficiently as possible. Shared Judgment also goes a long way towards having some stacking buffing potential that's specific to your situation.
IN ADDITION, the Preacher archetype, while causing you to lose your Teamwork feat fun, gives you the ability to further buff or debuff. You don't get many uses of the ability, but the effects are AWESOME.
Anyways, that's all I can think of at the moment. With a focus on high Wisdom, decent Charisma/Intelligence, and a passable Strength score with which to make touch attacks, you should be pretty combat capable. Something like a:
14 - 10 - 12 - 12 - 16 - 11
Should work. Put your attribute bonus into Wisdom, first stat point goes to Charisma, the rest in Wisdom. But yeah, there ya go.
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I'm a 10th level Inquisitor in PFS, and although I can deal stupid amounts of damage Enlarged, with a Greataxe, Bane, Judgment, and Divine Favor, lately I've found that being the party buffer/enemy debuffer is more enjoyable.
Every time I've used Branded for Retribution, the party kills the bad guy. Shared Wrath is amazing for both martials and casters. If there's an Archer in the party I cast Lend Judgment for whatever they want. I also took the Half-Orc Favored Class Bonus so my Monster Lore gets the information we need, and my Intimidate makes Blistering Invective scary. First question I ask the GM when we encounter an outsider is whether it can Teleport, and if the answer is "yes", out comes a Dimensional Anchor. If push comes to shove, casters love it when I use Cornugon Smash. Outside of combat, despite having a Charisma of 7, I can be the party face, since I use Wisdom for Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate.
He's a fun character. Took me a while to realize his role, and for most of his career he's been the smashy type, but now I'm helping the party, rather than soloing everything.
