How does an Exocortex's Combat Tracking interact with Deadly Aim and Weapon Focus?

[Torbyne]

Exocortex gives the mechanic a move action to make attacks against a specific target (or three) using your mechanic level as your base attack bonus.

Weapon Focus grants a +1 to hit unless your BAB is 3 less than your level in which case it grants a +2.

Deadly Aim gives a damage bonus based off your 1/2 your BAB.

At level 10 do these feats fluctuate based on if you are using combat tracking or not? ie, do you get an effective 10 BAB plus weapon focus as a +2 for your actual BAB being lower? Does Deadly Aim give you a +3 or +5 to damage rolls? do these values only change against tracked targets?

my initial thought is that it doesnt count as actual BAB so the character would get better accuracy but lower pay off from Deadly Aim. which is awesome because those hit bonuses are hard to come by.

[JetSetRadio]

You have to choose to use combat training. So if you are using it you only get the +1 for weapon focus. If you aren't using it then you get the +2. Was that the question?

[Peat]

Quote:

allowing you to make attacks against that target as if your base attack bonus from your mechanic levels were equal to your mechanic level

I have gone back and forth on this, but my interpretation would be that for that specific attack, your BAB = Mechanic level.

Therefore you get Deadly Aim as if you are full BAB, and your Weapon Focus for that specific attack was with full BAB (so you may lose a +1 from Weapon Focus at higher levels.)

[Cadynce Delholme]

I agree with everyone else. The feats specifically apply to what your CURRENT BAB happens to be. That's the benefit of choosing Exocortex over a Drone, and one of the things I like about the classes choice between chassis.

[Torbyne]

JetSetRadio wrote:

You have to choose to use combat training. So if you are using it you only get the +1 for weapon focus. If you aren't using it then you get the +2. Was that the question?

Beacause "allowing you to make attacks against that target as if your base attack bonus from your mechanic levels were equal to your mechanic level" is not the same as actually having that BAB, so the question is, is the psuedo BAB only for attack bonuses against the specific target or does it apply for other effects based on BAB as well. i have not seen anything else that generates a psuedo BAB in the game yet so i dont know if there is a general rule to cover these instances yet. it is weird though because it could leave the mechanic with one of the best BABs since it would mean they can get the +2 from weapon focus and the +2 from tinkering with their weapon once/day on top of team buffs.

[rook1138]

From my friends and I reading all the things, we've concluded that's the Exomech uses their level for bab for that target, and their normal bab for any others, and you'd adjust bonuses from deadly aim and WF accordingly (like, say, using a blast or line weapon, or a 'nade; where you're targeting more than just your tracked target).

[JetSetRadio]

Pretty sure the wording changes your BAB to equal your character lvl while the exocortex is on.
The way I read it is at lvl 10:
exocortex on +10
weapon focus +1
deadly aim -2

Attack not including mod +9, damage from "DA" +5

Or
exocortex off +7
weapon focus +2
deadly aim -2

Attack not including mod +7, damage from "DA" +3 or +4 (depending on rounding)

Does this look right?

[Torbyne]

What about the resistance feat that grants you DR or energy resist based off your BAB, is that keyed to your regular BAB but upscales based on your tracked target?

[HammerJack]

No. The exocortex allows you to make attacks as though you had full BAB from your mechanic levels.

Getting shot is not making an attack.

[Torbyne]

HammerJack wrote:

No. The exocortex allows you to make attacks as though you had full BAB from your mechanic levels.

Getting shot is not making an attack.

Obviously, but the feat provides a defense based on your BAB whether you attack or not, if Weapon Focus and Deadly Aim would run off the Exocortex boost it stands to reason that Enhanced Resistance would too, though possibly only against targeted enemies... which makes the whole logic sound weird.

[Cadynce Delholme]

Torbyne wrote:

HammerJack wrote:

No. The exocortex allows you to make attacks as though you had full BAB from your mechanic levels.

Getting shot is not making an attack.

Obviously, but the feat provides a defense based on your BAB whether you attack or not, if Weapon Focus and Deadly Aim would run off the Exocortex boost it stands to reason that Enhanced Resistance would too, though possibly only against targeted enemies... which makes the whole logic sound weird.

Combat Tracking says;

As long as that target is in sight, the exocortex feeds you telemetry, vulnerabilities, and combat tactics, allowing you to make attacks against that target as if your base attack bonus from your mechanic levels were equal to your mechanic level.

RAW you only count your BAB as equal to your Mechanic level when you spend the move action AND target that specific foe. Nothing else. I would believe this allows it to work for Weapon Focus and Specialization, if against the specified foe, or as normal against anyone else.

[Torbyne]

Cadynce Delholme wrote:

Torbyne wrote:

HammerJack wrote:

No. The exocortex allows you to make attacks as though you had full BAB from your mechanic levels.

Getting shot is not making an attack.

Obviously, but the feat provides a defense based on your BAB whether you attack or not, if Weapon Focus and Deadly Aim would run off the Exocortex boost it stands to reason that Enhanced Resistance would too, though possibly only against targeted enemies... which makes the whole logic sound weird.

Combat Tracking says;

As long as that target is in sight, the exocortex feeds you telemetry, vulnerabilities, and combat tactics, allowing you to make attacks against that target as if your base attack bonus from your mechanic levels were equal to your mechanic level.

RAW you only count your BAB as equal to your Mechanic level when you spend the move action AND target that specific foe. Nothing else. I would believe this allows it to work for Weapon Focus and Specialization, if against the specified foe, or as normal against anyone else.

So, against that specific foe you would have a higher resistance as well? or no?

I know its beyond the scope of the thread title but the real question at the heart of it is "how far does an effective BAB go, does it count as such for all effects that scale off BAB?"

[Cadynce Delholme]

Only if that BAB counts towards an attack you're making. That's my opinion. Weapon Focus and Deadly Aim use the BAB of the specific attack that is being made. Enhanced Resistance uses your characters base BAB.

[Wikrin]

"As if" is a pretty big phrase for only being four letters long. Doesn't actually grant you a BAB equal to your level. Simple as.

[Torbyne]

Wikrin wrote:

"As if" is a pretty big phrase for only being four letters long. Doesn't actually grant you a BAB equal to your level. Simple as.

That would be a very simple rule to run with. it does let the mechanic snag an extra +1 to hit from level 10 onward but that still isnt exactly intruding on the Soldier's turf since they are likely to have more to hit bonuses and better damage buffs too. Meanwhile, you never have to track two separate Deadly Aim or Enhanced Resistance bonuses against separate targets.

[Syries]

(Example: You're a lv10 mechanic with an exocortex, Weapon Focus (Longarms) and deadly aim)

*Enemies A & B fight you and your party
**You use a move to position yourself and move action to track a single target, target A (Ignoring the fact you can target 2 at level 10, for the sake of this example)
***Your party takes their turn, as do the enemies. Both are still standing
****Your turn comes around again. You decide to make a full attack at the -4 penalty. You target your first shot at target A and your second shot at target B

Assuming 20 Dex, for target A we have BAB 10+ Dex 5+ Weapon Focus 1+ Deadly Aim -2+ Full Attack -4, for a total of a +10 to hit target A.
Damage is the usual with +5 from Deadly Aim

Target B we have BAB 7+ Dex 5+ Weapon Focus 2+ Deadly Aim -2+Full Attack -4, for a total of +8
Damage is the usual with +3 from Deadly Aim

Because of the wording of the combat tracking ability, anything that scales off of your BAB other than your own attack rolls is based off of your actual BAB, not your boosted BAB.

[dragonhunterq]

"as if" should be exactly the same as having the actual ability for all purposes unless stated otherwise - otherwise it is meaningless.

[Syries]

dragonhunterq wrote:

"as if" should be exactly the same as having the actual ability for all purposes unless stated otherwise - otherwise it is meaningless.

"allowing you to make attacks against that target as if your base attack bonus from your mechanic levels were equal to your mechanic level"

Only the mechanic's attacks against that specific target count as having full BAB. In that sense, "as if" does equate to having the actual ability, but ONLY for that specific purpose. Any other effect based on BAB does not use the mechanic's class level as it's BAB.

[Cyrad]

These feats use your augmented BAB. It's like this in Pathfinder, too. If you have an ability that temporarily increases your base attack bonus, you gain all of the benefits of having an increased base attack bonuses.

[Ravingdork]

Weapon focus is not your attack. The exocortex only effects your attacks. Ergo your exorcortex has no effect on weapon focus.

[Torbyne]

Cyrad wrote:

These feats use your augmented BAB. It's like this in Pathfinder, too. If you have an ability that temporarily increases your base attack bonus, you gain all of the benefits of having an increased base attack bonuses.

Would that leave you with two separate bonuses to track from Enhanced Resistance since you have BAB vs tracked target and BAB vs other targets? i shouldnt be surprised if the one ability means you need to track three or four categories of shifted values since i ran into that sort of scenario all the time in Pathfinder...

[Syries]

Ravingdork wrote:

Weapon focus is not your attack. The exocortex only effects your attacks. Ergo your exorcortex has no effect on weapon focus.

It's still based on your BAB and your BAB changes when you target an enemy with the exocortex.

Lv10 without Exocortex attacking Target A: BAB = 7, Weapon Focus gives a +2 bonus.

Lv10 with Exocortex attacking Target A: BAB = 10, Weapon Focus gives a +1 bonus.

Torbyne wrote:

Cyrad wrote:

These feats use your augmented BAB. It's like this in Pathfinder, too. If you have an ability that temporarily increases your base attack bonus, you gain all of the benefits of having an increased base attack bonuses.

Would that leave you with two separate bonuses to track from Enhanced Resistance since you have BAB vs tracked target and BAB vs other targets? i shouldnt be surprised if the one ability means you need to track three or four categories of shifted values since i ran into that sort of scenario all the time in Pathfinder...

The Exocortex specifically states that your BAB is equal to mechanic level on your attack rolls against the tracked targets. That would mean your BAB increase ONLY for those attacks.

[Ravingdork]

Yes, for the attack only. Not for anything else, like feats. Weapon Focus still uses your original base attack bonus.

[Cadynce Delholme]

Ravingdork wrote:

Weapon focus is not your attack. The exocortex only affects your attacks. Ergo your exocortex has no effect on weapon focus.

This ruling would make it EVEN better than for the Mechanic. As they would get +2 with Weapon Focus AND have full BAB against a tracked enemy. (Or 2 at higher levels.)

At level 9, when the feat offers more than the static +1, the Mechanic will have;

Lvl 9 without Exocortex attacking Target A: BAB = +6, Weapon Focus gives a +2 bonus, netting you a total of +8, before other modifiers.

Lvl 9 with the Exocortex attacking Target A: BAB = +9, Weapon Focus gives a +2 bonus, which is a sum of +11, before other modifiers.

Was this your intention/interpretation Ravingdork?

I mean after level 9, Deadly Aim + Weapon Focus vs a Tracked Opponent is basically just free damage... by your ruling.

[Syries]

Ravingdork wrote:

Yes, for the attack only. Not for anything else, like feats. Weapon Focus still uses your original base attack bonus.

Your base attack bonus is equal to your mechanic level for that attack, though, meaning your BAB is not at least 3 lower than you character level, and you instead only get the +1. For all other attacks that don't target tracked targets, you get the +2 from Weapon Focus.

[Melkiador]

It depends a bit on whether "attack" is meaning an attack roll or the entire attack action. I'd guess it to be talking about the entire action and not just the attack roll.

[Torbyne]

Melkiador wrote:

It depends a bit on whether "attack" is meaning an attack roll or the entire attack action. I'd guess it to be talking about the entire action and not just the attack roll.

Even if the DR reverts to 3/4 BAB it might be worthwhile to get the boosted DR during your attack to let you get a shot off in melee and have the full BAB DR to soak up the AoO. I am already concerned about how long gunners will be able to handle getting by in a game where everything will survive the shooting round to get into melee but if you can cut back on their damage enough than you might still be able to get away with using a longarm all of the time. Of course, if they had included bayonets in the game you wouldnt have to worry about it at all but thats really another thread for another forum.

[Torbyne]

Melkiador wrote:

It depends a bit on whether "attack" is meaning an attack roll or the entire attack action. I'd guess it to be talking about the entire action and not just the attack roll.

I would assume that an "attack" is the entire sequence from declaring you are making an attack all the way through the determination and tallying of damage from that attack. hence in my post above it stands to reason that, if an exocortex mechanic has full BAB for all effects but only against targeted enemies and only for the duration of the attack, the have the lower Weapon Focus bonus, the higher Deadly Aim bonus and the higher Enhanced Resistance bonus. After their attack is resolved the resistance bonus would drop back down to 3/4 BAB.

[Ravingdork]

Cadynce Delholme wrote:

Was this your intention/interpretation Ravingdork?

Yes, your examples appear accurate, according to my interpretation.

[Torbyne]

Ravingdork wrote:

Cadynce Delholme wrote:

Was this your intention/interpretation Ravingdork?

Yes, your examples appear accurate, according to my interpretation.

Although, i would assume the Exocortex Mechanic is supposed to be compared against the Soldier as the other heavy armor, longarm user coming right out of the box? So if the EM gets full BAB +2 from WF that is still not that much in comparison to the soldier who will likely have another +1 to hit from a class source not to mention getting to make more than two attacks per round. i havent run the math on it but they shouldnt be infringing on the Soldier DPR even if they get the extra +1 to hit, right?

[Cadynce Delholme]

Ravingdork wrote:

Cadynce Delholme wrote:

Was this your intention/interpretation Ravingdork?

Yes, your examples appear accurate, according to my interpretation.

Wonderful. Thank you for the concise and civil response. We need more of these. :)

[rixu]

We were just conversing about this with my players and we started to wonder about enhanced resistance -feat. True that the higher BAB is only during the attack but what if the target has Reflecting Armor -spell active. Should he then get the enhanced resistance DR as if he had the BaB=Mechanic level also since the damage comes from his own attack?