Hey guys!
What happens if two characters with Crane Wing and combat reflexes attack each other in melee?
1) Dude A: Miss.
2) Dude B: Cane Riposte activates, Miss.
Does it end here or go on?
3) Dude A: Crane Riposte activates, Miss.
4) Dude B: Cane Riposte activates, Miss.
3 and 4 repeat until someone hits or someone runs out of AoOs for that round.
I ask because two villain groups that hate each other and work with the PCs in a game of mine are likely to come into conflict with each other. While acting as bosses, it is entirely possible for them to fight each other in some future climaxes.
Not an official rules answer, but I treat counter attacks as unable to trigger a counter attack, just to prevent the kind of endless loop you're wondering about.
Hey guys!
What happens if two characters with Crane Wing attack each other in melee?
1) Dude A: Miss.
2) Dude B: Cane Riposte activates, Miss.
Does it end here or go on?
3) Dude A: Crane Riposte activates, Miss.
4) Dude B: Cane Riposte activates, Miss.
3 and 4 repeat until someone hits or someone runs out of AoOs for that round.I ask because two villain groups that hate each other and work with the PCs in a game of mine are likely to come into conflict with each other. While acting as bosses, it is entirely possible for them to fight each other in some future climaxes.
Crane Riposte only works once per round, because it requires you to either deflect an attack or lose the +4 A.C. In all instances except the first, you have no deflection or A.C. loss.
Crane Riposte only works once per round, because it requires you to either deflect an attack or lose the +4 A.C. In all instances except the first, you have no deflection or A.C. loss.Hey guys!
What happens if two characters with Crane Wing attack each other in melee?
1) Dude A: Miss.
2) Dude B: Cane Riposte activates, Miss.
Does it end here or go on?
3) Dude A: Crane Riposte activates, Miss.
4) Dude B: Cane Riposte activates, Miss.
3 and 4 repeat until someone hits or someone runs out of AoOs for that round.I ask because two villain groups that hate each other and work with the PCs in a game of mine are likely to come into conflict with each other. While acting as bosses, it is entirely possible for them to fight each other in some future climaxes.
Looking at it again.
Crane Wing: Benefit: When fighting defensively with at least one hand free, you gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC against melee attacks. If a melee attack misses you by 4 or less, you lose this dodge bonus until the beginning of your next turn.
Unless it misses by 4 or less (4, 3, 2, 1), the bonus remains as it is written on D20pfsrd.com.
Crane Riposte:
1) Whenever you deflect an opponent’s attack using Crane Wing or lose the dodge bonus from Crane Wing because an attack missed you by 4 or less, you can make an attack of opportunity against the attacker after the attack misses.
2) In addition, when you deflect an attack using Crane Wing while taking the total defense action, you may make an attack of opportunity against that opponent (even though you could not normally do so while taking the total defense action).
This is a nightmare of writing although not as bad as some stuff from Paizo. Basically part 2 is already included in part 1 with the stipulation that it can activate even while total-defensing. Part 1 basically says that someone has to miss by 4 or less to provoke the AoO.
Basically, both render this feat to be pretty much useless in terms of what I'm looking for. I could always make this into a monster ability instead.
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Crane Riposte triggers whenever the conditions allow it to trigger, including having at least one remaining attack of opportunity to make. This isn't a weird situation--it comes up with Combat Reflexes and using, say, disarm/trip/sunder maneuvers without the appropriate feat to prevent provoking.
Alice: I sunder Bob's armor.
Bob: Provoked! I sunder Alice's shield.
Alice: Provoked! I sunder Bob's helmet.
Bob: Provoked! I sunder Alice's longsword.
An instant later, after the stack of AoOs unwinds, Alice and Bob are down to their smallclothes surrounded by shards, and the other combatants are trying to figure out what the hell just happened. It's easy to resolve but gives the feel of that whole "trying to be the last to grab the broomstick" game.
Crane Riposte only works once per round, because it requires you to either deflect an attack or lose the +4 A.C. In all instances except the first, you have no deflection or A.C. loss.Hey guys!
What happens if two characters with Crane Wing attack each other in melee?
1) Dude A: Miss.
2) Dude B: Cane Riposte activates, Miss.
Does it end here or go on?
3) Dude A: Crane Riposte activates, Miss.
4) Dude B: Cane Riposte activates, Miss.
3 and 4 repeat until someone hits or someone runs out of AoOs for that round.I ask because two villain groups that hate each other and work with the PCs in a game of mine are likely to come into conflict with each other. While acting as bosses, it is entirely possible for them to fight each other in some future climaxes.
Looking at it again.
Crane Wing: Benefit: When fighting defensively with at least one hand free, you gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC against melee attacks. If a melee attack misses you by 4 or less, you lose this dodge bonus until the beginning of your next turn.
Unless it misses by 4 or less (4, 3, 2, 1), the bonus remains as it is written on D20pfsrd.com.
Crane Riposte:
1) Whenever you deflect an opponent’s attack using Crane Wing or lose the dodge bonus from Crane Wing because an attack missed you by 4 or less, you can make an attack of opportunity against the attacker after the attack misses.2) In addition, when you deflect an attack using Crane Wing while taking the total defense action, you may make an attack of opportunity against that opponent (even though you could not normally do so while taking the total defense action).
This is a nightmare of writing although not as bad as some stuff from Paizo. Basically part 2 is already included in part 1 with the stipulation that it can activate even while total-defensing. Part 1 basically says that someone has to miss by 4 or less to provoke the AoO.
Basically, both render this feat to be pretty much useless in...
Well, the AoO only triggers if you deflect an attack. Crane Wing lets you deflect an attack once per round. Therefore, you only get one AoO a round.
Even with Fighting Defensively, once you lose the AC bonus, you don't get it back until your next turn, so even with ample AoOs, the condition to trigger this AoO doesn't exist. And the AoO doesn't trigger until you lose the AC bonus.
The one that can actually lead to a giant chain (and did against a creature with a similar ability in a game I was playing) is Snake Fang, since unlike Crane Riposte it triggers every time an attack misses. The Snake Fang-er had 11 AoOs up against a foe with infinite AoOs that could make one hit or miss whenever attacked, so the character's first attack turned into a chain of 23 attacks (she also had Crane Riposte which was needed when the enemy was going to hit her once).
The one that can actually lead to a giant chain (and did against a creature with a similar ability in a game I was playing) is Snake Fang, since unlike Crane Riposte it triggers every time an attack misses. The Snake Fang-er had 11 AoOs up against a foe with infinite AoOs that could make one hit or miss whenever attacked, so the character's first attack turned into a chain of 23 attacks (she also had Crane Riposte which was needed when the enemy was going to hit her once).
This actually works perfectly. Thanks Mark!
The one that can actually lead to a giant chain (and did against a creature with a similar ability in a game I was playing) is Snake Fang, since unlike Crane Riposte it triggers every time an attack misses. The Snake Fang-er had 11 AoOs up against a foe with infinite AoOs that could make one hit or miss whenever attacked, so the character's first attack turned into a chain of 23 attacks (she also had Crane Riposte which was needed when the enemy was going to hit her once).
Oof! Wish I'd been there.