From the combat chapter: "You can also use [Aid Another] to help a friend in other ways, such as when he is affected by a spell...."
How the crap does that work?
A classic example is hold person. You get a save each round, so your buddy coming up to you and telling you to snap out of it could give you a bonus on your saving throw.
I didn't know you could do that...
Hold Person is a good example, and it's pretty much what I figured. Here's the question though: What skill/save/attack bonus do you use on the roll to aid?
Hold Person is a good example, and it's pretty much what I figured. Here's the question though: What skill/save/attack bonus do you use on the roll to aid?
Presumably the applicable save bonus.
Don't think it works for hold person, just those spells that specifically allow for it, such as sleep (to wake your companion up) for example.
How is hold person not being "affected by a spell"?
I don't think the Combat Chapter reference is for ANY spell. I think it refers only to those spells that specifically state you can use aid another (sleep being one example).
How is the wizard's level of will power supposed to help the fighter break free from a hold person spell pray tell? It's more of an internal struggle.
In short, I'm arguing that you cannot use aid another to boost an ally's saves under normal circumstances.
Waking someone from Sleep doesn't require an Aid Another check, though, it's a simple matter of slapping someone with the appropriate (standard?) action.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Sleep mentions it specifically b/c for sleep it's an automatic success, which isn't how Aid Another normally works.
With any spell that doesn't specify how it works DIFFERENTLY, one must assume that it works NORMALLY.
and as for how is the wizard supposed to help? Have you never seen a movie / read a book where somebody's trying to fight off some form of mind control, and their friend is trying to talk them through it?
"This isn't you, get ahold of yourself. Remember the yellow crayon?" etc.
Granted that example is for charms/compulsions, but Hold isn't much different.
"OK listen to me, .. clear your mind, imagine the magic as a wall around your mind, focus your will like a sword.. you're good with swords remember? Now smash that wall!"
etc etc etc.
Presumably the applicable save bonus.
That makes sense to me from a rules perspective. It pairs nicely with the Skill-based uses of Aid Another that make you roll the same skill. I'm just having a hard time reconciling the image of the classic, "Snap out of it man!" being represented by a Will save. In my mind that action seems like a Diplomacy or Intimidate check or even (accompanied by a slap) an unarmed strike.
Though it is an automatic success, doesn't sleep specifically call it a use of the aid another action?
Though it is an automatic success, doesn't sleep specifically call it a use of the aid another action?
Good catch! Here's the line in question:
"Slapping or wounding awakens an affected creature, but normal noise does not. Awakening a creature is a standard action (an application of the aid another action)."
I've always played awakening as automatic thanks to the "slapping or wounding" line, but I wonder what the intent is here? I mean, do you have to actually deal non-lethal damage via unarmed strike to make it automatic via slapping? Would the aid another option then represent a gentler, non-damaging "shake 'em awake" method? What a weird rules interaction we've stumbled into!