First time I've built a two-handed weapon paladin in Pathfinder. We will start at lvl 1, but I've done a lvl 10 build:
Aasimar (Angel-Blooded, Scion of Humanity, Holy weapon 1/day), 10th Level Paladin
Initiative: +7
Armor Class: 25 ( +1 Dex, +2 deflection, +12 Full Plate +3 (Mithral))
Saves: Fort: +16, Ref: +11, Will: +13 (+1 against spells, SLA, poison)
Abilities: Str 22, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 20
Feats: Power Attack, Imp. Init., Weapon Focus (Greatsword), Furious Focus, Improved Critical (Greatsword)
Traits/Drawbacks: Family Ties, Glory of Old, Magical Knack, Reactionary
Possessions: Headband of Alluring Charisma +2; Greatsword +3; Ring of Protection +2; Full Plate +3 (Mithral); Belt of Giant Strength +2; Cloak of Resistance +2; Bolt, Crossbow; Paladin's Kit; Flail, Heavy +1; Light Crossbow.
I did my best! He has good saves, a good to-hit, pretty good dmg and AC. The plan is to get him a holy avenger, but I wanted to give him a blunt damage weapon as we will eventually be facing undead, and a crossbow for obvious reasons.
I struggled a bit with the feat order, trying to take them when I thought I would need them. Feedback is welcome!
Looks good man.
Make sure you choose Divine Favor, Bull's Strength and Eagle's Splendor for spells while you're running around. Since you're using a two-hander, Bull's strength can really help. +3 to hit and dmg. Also, always cast Eagle's Splendor before you Smite Evil. It's an additional +2 to hit and AC. Since you're level 10, your Divine Favor spell is a +3 to hit and dmg and your Divine Bond with weapon is +2 to hit and dmg (increases to +3 at lvl 11), and all these effects stack.
+10 BAB
+1 WF
-0 PA (Furious Focus)
+6 Str
+3 2h Str bonus
+3 Weapon Enchant
= +22 to hit naturally
+3 Bull's Str
+3 Divine Favor
+2 Divine Bond
= +30 to hit while buffed
+7 Smite Evil (w/ Eagle's Splendor)
= +37 to hit while buffed vs. Smite Evil target
+6 Str
+3 2h Str bonus
+6 PA
+3 2h PA bonus
+3 Weapon Enchant
= +21 to dmg naturally
+3 Bull's Str
+3 Divine Favor
+2 Divine Bond
= +29 to dmg while buffed
+10 Smite Evil
= +39 to dmg while buffed vs. Smite Evil target
These are absolutely monstrous numbers. Consider using Divine Bond with your weapon to grant you Speed (+3) when you get to level 11 for an additional Full BAB hit per round, because your + to hit and damage is pretty beastly already.
One other thing, Paladin's are extremely feat intensive. You already have a Divine Bond Weapon enchant that can give you Keen when you want it, so you don't need improved Critical. Unless you are truly married to having that feat, I would consider getting something else like Vital Strike or Extra Lay on Hands or Extra Mercies.
Speaking of which, what mercies did you choose?
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So, I don't think you can have a paladin advice thread without mentioning Fey Foundling. As much as I dislike the idea of every Paladin being found in the wilds as a child, it's a ridiculously powerful feat for Paladins. Other than that, it looks pretty good. Though I would consider a composite longbow as the ranged option over the crossbow. It's not as important til level 6 when you start getting more than one attack a round, but eventually the crossbow won't really cut it.
I'd be tempted to use a Nodichi for my weapon. While it is only a 1D10 damage, its does piercing or slashing and crits on 18+.
Is there a reason for taking the scion of humanity?
It actually makes you suffer a double vulnerability. To both stuff that target plane types and stuff targeting humans. Two of the most common 'lets kill them' types of abilities.
I assume to make himself a valid target for enlarge person.
OP, Note that Eagle's Splendor and Bull's Strength won't stack with the headband and belt, so you'll only get an extra +1 ( the bonus to damage from a 2 handed weapon might be +2 depending on whether it makes your Str mod even or not, not sure where Ryze is getting +3 to hit from)
Bless weapon also auto confirms crits (unless you're using keen) against evil stuff which makes large threat range weapons quite good on a paladin. I like enlarged and a fauchard for the reach.
Bless weapon can also make your flail count as +1 against evil stuff for DR/incorporeal purposes, if you want to save some money there.
Also, unless you're going to be retraining, I really don't know about spending 2 feats on a weapon you're going to stop using. You could get a white pyramid ioun stone and wayfinder to get a weapon focus that you can change later, but without someone to craft the ioun stone for you it's an expensive proposition. (I doubt you have the int and spare skill points to do it yourself, and even if you could, Craft Arms and Armor will probably save you more money, and more or less guarantees the holy avenger. Assuming you can get spellcraft that high)
Thanks for the feedback everyone. Here are my reactions to what you've said.
Good advice on the Improved Critical, I didn't realize I could add Keen to my sword. Vital Strike, extra Lay on Hands or extra Mercy are good ideas, I'll have to decide between them. The mercies I took are fatigued, sickened and staggered--I just took a shot. I could have taken exhausted or nauseated I suppose, just don't know how often those come up?
In terms of weapons, my plan is to play this guy sort of like He Man, as a character approach to him being a paladin. As part of that, he'll either have a bastard sword or a greatsword. My DM has said he doesn't see a reason why a holy avenger couldn't be either one of those, so I won't need to change my weapon later on. Good idea on the composite longbow, I hadn't considered that.
As for scion of humanity, three reasons. One is so I won't have to disguise myself to blend in as a human. Another is so spells that only affect humanoids, such as enlarge person, will affect me. Also I can choose human-only archetypes and feats if I want. Heck I could take Racial Heritage and poach archetypes and feats from virtually any other race. Haven't figured out how to make the most of that possibility yet...any ideas??
As for Fey Foundling, I didn't choose it because of the backstory I thought up for him, involving being raised by dwarves, which is how the regional trait is blended in, as well as the family ties. On second thought, it could work (that's how/where the dwarves found him). Good idea!
Thanks for the insight on Bless Weapon, I hadn't thought of that either. I can now get a non-magical flail.
Thanks for the feedback, I appreciated all the comments! Any other ideas are welcome.
J
Consider the targeted Mercy. It applies a Sanctuary buff on your LoH target until the target makes their next attack or casts a spell. Any mob attempting to make an attack or cast a spell on your Sanctuary target must overcome a 17DC Will Save or their attack/spell fails.
You can get pretty creative with this too, because you can use a Swift action at any point in time during the round that you'd be able to use a free action (which is your entire turn in a round).
So let's say you're getting pwned and you need to LoH yourself. It's your turn in the round, and instead of using LoH as a swift action at the beginning of your turn, use it at the end of your turn. If you attack, move, then swift, your Sanctuary effect remains on you until you make an attack action on your next turn.
This basically maximizes the utility of Sanctuary while in the middle of combat. The Sanctuary actually lasts 1 round/level, so feel free to not actually attack if the need arises.
Sanctuary on your allies can especially be nice too; it saves lives :)
I think you should consider Fatigued at level 3 (If your party has to sleep in their armor, they'll be fatigued) and Targeted at level 6. All of the level 9 mercies are awesome, so it really comes down to what you think you'll be running into the most.
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So, I don't think you can have a paladin advice thread without mentioning Fey Foundling. As much as I dislike the idea of every Paladin being found in the wilds as a child, it's a ridiculously powerful feat for Paladins. Other than that, it looks pretty good. Though I would consider a composite longbow as the ranged option over the crossbow. It's not as important til level 6 when you start getting more than one attack a round, but eventually the crossbow won't really cut it.
The argument for improved crit is that bless weapon and keen do not stack. But improved Critical and bless weapon works.
Why did you pick a light crossbow instead of a (composite) longbow? The crossbow does have a slightly better crit, but the bow has a longer range, and when you get a composite bow, you can add your Strength bonus to damage. You're already proficient with longbows, so there isn't much of a benefit of going with the crossbow.
The DC for overcoming the Sanctuary is actually 10 + 1/2lvl + Cha mod, so for you at lvl 10, it would be 10 + 5 + 5 (+2 with Eagle's Splendor). So a potential Will Save DC of 22 that all mobs must overcome in order to attack your LoH'ed target (or yourself).
Thanks for the advice. I'm modifying my original build and doing an alternate, human-based build and will put them up for comment and feedback. I'm a bit torn between the two.
J
Alright, here are my two builds:
Male Aasimar (Angel-Blooded); Medium Outsider ( Native, Angel-Blooded, Human )
Initiative: +7
AC: 25 (touch 13, flatfooted 24)
Attacks: *Greatsword +3 (two handed) +19/+14; Composite Longbow STR (+5) +11/+6; Flail, Heavy (two handed) +16/+11;
Damage: *Greatsword +3 (two handed) 2d6+12; Composite Longbow STR (+5) 1d8+5; Flail, Heavy (two handed) 1d10+9;
Vision: Darkvision (60 ft.)
Special Qualities: Holy weapon 1/day, Aura of Courage, Aura of Good, Aura of Resolve, Celestial Resistance, Celestial Spirit, Darkvision, Detect Evil, Divine Health, Mercy (Exhausted), Mercy (Fatigued), Lay on Hands, Resistance to Acid, Resistance to Cold, Resistance to Electricity, Scion of Humanity, Mercy (Sickened), Skilled, Variant Ability
Saves: Fortitude: +16, Reflex: +11, Will: +13
Abilities: STR 22 (+6), DEX 12 (+1), CON 14 (+2), INT 10 (+0), WIS 8 (-1), CHA 20 (+5)
Skills: Diplomacy 18, Heal 5, Kn. Nobility 4, Kn. Religion 4, Perception 9, Sense Motive 9
Feats: Fey Foundling, Furious Focus, Greater Mercy, Improved Initiative, Power Attack (not in order)
Region: Five Kings Mountains
Possessions: Headband of Alluring Charisma +2; Greatsword +3; Ring of Protection +2; Outfit (Traveler's); Belt of Giant Strength +2; Cloak of Resistance +2; Full Plate +3 (Mithral); Arrow, Blunt (20); Holy Symbol (Silver); Arrows (20/Cold Iron); Paladin's Kit; Composite Longbow STR (+5); Flail, Heavy;
Paladin - Spells per Day: (0/4/2/1/0/0/0/0/0/ DC:15 + spell level)
Classic Pal-Human
Male Human; Medium Humanoid
Paladin 10
Initiative: +7
AC: 25 (touch 13, flatfooted 24)
Attacks: *Greatsword +3 (two handed) +20/+15; Composite Longbow STR (+5) +11/+6; Heavy Flail (two handed) +16/+11;
Damage: *Greatsword +3 (two handed) 2d6+12; Composite Longbow STR (+5) 1d8+5; Heavy Flail (two handed) 1d10+9;
Special Attacks: Channel Positive Energy, Smite Evil
Special Qualities: Mercy (Exhausted), Mercy (Fatigued), Lay on Hands, Resistance to Fire, Mercy (Sickened), Skilled
Saves: Fortitude: +15, Reflex: +10, Will: +12
Abilities: STR 22 (+6), DEX 12 (+1), CON 14 (+2), INT 10 (+0), WIS 8 (-1), CHA 18 (+4)
Skills: Diplomacy 17, Heal 3, Knowledge Nobility 4, Knowledge Religion 11, Perception 9, Sense Motive 12
Feats: Fey Foundling, Furious Focus, Greater Mercy, Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Greatsword) (not in order)
Region: Five Kings Mountains
Possessions: Headband of Alluring Charisma +2; Greatsword +3; Ring of Protection +2; Belt of Giant Strength +2; Cloak of Resistance +2; Full Plate +3 (Mithral); Outfit (Traveler's); Arrows (20/Cold Iron); Arrow, Blunt (20); Holy Symbol (Silver); Paladin's Kit; Composite Longbow STR (+5); Heavy Flail;
Paladin - Spells per Day: (0/3/2/1/0/0/0/0/0/ DC:14 + spell level
The differences as I see them come from the Aasimar's 20 cha, with the bonuses to saves, spell DC, bonus to cha skills, add'l lvl 1 spell; and multiple racial abilities. Less skill points, one less feat.
Human is the opposite, due to a 18 cha; no special racial abilities; more skill points, and an additional feat. And of course, my other feats come online 2 levels earlier. Hmm, don't think I need weapon focus, might take Vital Strike or extra lay on hands.
Thoughts on which build to take? Any other feedback is welcome too.
Thanks for the insight on Bless Weapon, I hadn't thought of that either. I can now get a non-magical flail.
Now that you no longer need to pay the extra to have it enchanted, may as well make it cold iron while you're at it.
It's also worth noting the Human alternate favoured class bonus, 10 points of fire resistance can be pretty sweet. (I like the Tiefling FCB myself)
Eh, I'd rather have the skills, tbh. Cold iron flail is happening, though!
So, I don't think you can have a paladin advice thread without mentioning Fey Foundling. As much as I dislike the idea of every Paladin being found in the wilds as a child, it's a ridiculously powerful feat for Paladins. Other than that, it looks pretty good. Though I would consider a composite longbow as the ranged option over the crossbow. It's not as important til level 6 when you start getting more than one attack a round, but eventually the crossbow won't really cut it.The argument for improved crit is that bless weapon and keen do not stack. But improved Critical and bless weapon works.
If you are going this route make sure to use a weapon with an 18-20 critical hit range. Falchion is probably the most common for this.
If you are going this route make sure to use a weapon with an 18-20 critical hit range. Falchion is probably the most common for this.So, I don't think you can have a paladin advice thread without mentioning Fey Foundling. As much as I dislike the idea of every Paladin being found in the wilds as a child, it's a ridiculously powerful feat for Paladins. Other than that, it looks pretty good. Though I would consider a composite longbow as the ranged option over the crossbow. It's not as important til level 6 when you start getting more than one attack a round, but eventually the crossbow won't really cut it.The argument for improved crit is that bless weapon and keen do not stack. But improved Critical and bless weapon works.
I prefer the Scimitar as I do not like being grabbed/grappled and having to try to find a 1 handed weapon to keep damaging the enemy. I just 2 hands a Scimitar and when the situation calls for it, I will then use it 1 handed.
The weapon is almost certainly going to be a greatsword, and it's for thematic reasons (see above). That's more important to me with this build than ultra-optimizing him. I see your point with the scimitar as well, the equivalent of that for me would be a bastard sword or long sword, neither of which appeal to me at this point as much as a greatsword.
Any thoughts on either of the two builds I posted? I keep going back and forth between the two.
J