How are you planning on being an effective melee combatant with a 1/2 BAB class using just a dagger?
Wizards are powerful, but not as a Gish without some serious work. Magus is built to be a Gish.
If you want to Gish, be a Magus.
Also, why do you want to wield a dagger? It is unlikely to be the best choice for this character.
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How are you planning on being an effective melee combatant with a 1/2 BAB class using just a dagger?
Wizards are powerful, but not as a Gish without some serious work. Magus is built to be a Gish.
If you want to Gish, be a Magus.
Also, why do you want to wield a dagger? It is unlikely to be the best choice for this character.
Sword Binder - "Sword of the Mage": At 5th level you use Hand of the Apprentice but with all bonuses that apply to the weapon. I don't think a Dagger will qualify as a "Sword" so I'd be stuck picking a different weapon. But here's an example at 5th level +2BAB +5int +1weapon +1pbshot +1wfocus +2deific obedience:pharasma = +12 to touch based AC. At 11th level lets assume a +4 weapon, and 24int: +5BAB +7int +4weapon +1pbshot +1wfocus +2deific obedience:pharasma = +20 to touch based AC. At 8th level you could choose to make a ranged attack instead to apply weapon damage but that would be situational based on what you're fighting and if it's worth it. A +10 to touch AC at 5th level or +18 to touch AC at 11th level is plenty. Sword Binder would definitely be more of a ranged attack character though. At 11th level that would be 12 uses a day of HotA which is more than enough.
Magus is definitely built more for melee. It just seems that the Sword Binder is really similar except it excels at range, and swaps the benefits of the Spell Recall with Arcane Pool for a better spell progression?
The idea of the dagger was moreso for a "Rogue" feel and the Pharasma Deific Obedience bonus for +2atk, which would help either a Magus or Sword Binder land their attacks more easily. It's definitely one of the weakest weapons to use though, but would rather have the rogue flavor over the ultimate damage weapon.
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Anyone have some thoughts on these two archetypes? There's also the Eldritch Scoundrel but it's spell progression isn't as good as the Sword Binder and it can't cast and attack in the same round. Whatever build is taken, I'd like to keep some Rogue-like flavor with high skill points and deception/infiltration spells.
The needs of the character I'm trying to create are:
* Stealth capabilities (spells are probably my best option here)
* High Bluff, Disguise, Intimidate, Sense Motive
* Some way to deal burst damage - I originally was leaning towards Unchained Rogue with sneak attack but figured an intensified shocking grasp or other spells would be more effective.
* flexibility vs Resistances or DR, also flexibility as a party member to cover a few different roles in the party as necessary (Playing PFS after all.)
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If you want a backup dagger like weapon as a mage, you could do sorcerer and take divine fighting technique (desna's shooting star). You can do the seeker archetype for disable device.
Desna's Shooting Star is unfortunately not legal for PFS. So I'm down to vanilla Magus or Blade Adept arcanist with 1 lvl dip Inspired Blade Swashbuckler and rest EK? Out of those two what are people's thoughts here?
Spellbinder and Sword Binder are two different things. Sword Binder at least makes more sense.
Sword Binder definitely requires a sword, and a dagger is not a sword.
Personally, I still don't see it being all that effective, and I wouldn't really consider it much of a 'gish' build. A +4 weapon would be over a third of a characters expected wealth at level 11, possible, but somewhat expensive. Alternately any wizard could purchase a couple lesser and standard reach metamagic rods for that price if they were that concerned about delivering touch spells at range.
Magus is a lot more built for melee. First off, with spell strike you get to hit with weapon damage and the spell damage, so you are actually fighting, not just using a special effect to deliver a touch spell. Secondly, you get spell combat, which lets you take a full attack and cast a spell in the same round. Third, with the ability to be armored you have considerably better defense than a wizard. Finally, you are 3/4 not 1/2 BAB so you are much more competent in melee. Typically, a Magus can hit just fine between their BAB and arcane pool enhancing their weapon, but their are magus arcana that can help out with accuracy as well. Of course they are not 9-level casters and if you want to cast spells, not really gish a wizard is superior. I wouldn't recommend the Sword binder from a mechanical perspective, but if you love the flavor it is certainly workable, just not optimal compared to other options.
Given what you want your character to do though, I'd actually recommend you take a look at the Inquisitor class. It is divine, not arcane magic but they get good skill points and have the skills you are looking for as class skills. The divine nature melds well with wanting diety focused character anyway, and their ability to add bane to attacks means your weapon damage dice being lower isn't really a problem. If you want an even more 'rogue' feel, Sanctified Slayer does that pretty well and is considered a pretty good archetype. It probably won't give you the burst damage of an intensified shocking grasp crit, but it will deliver reliably good damage, and a bit more if you can get off a sneak attack. Inquisitors are a very flexible class in general, while remaining quite combat capable.
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Spellbinder and Sword Binder are two different things. Sword Binder at least makes more sense.
Sword Binder definitely requires a sword, and a dagger is not a sword.
Personally, I still don't see it being all that effective, and I wouldn't really consider it much of a 'gish' build. A +4 weapon would be over a third of a characters expected wealth at level 11, possible, but somewhat expensive. Alternately any wizard could purchase a couple lesser and standard reach metamagic rods for that price if they were that concerned about delivering touch spells at range.
Magus is a lot more built for melee. First off, with spell strike you get to hit with weapon damage and the spell damage, so you are actually fighting, not just using a special effect to deliver a touch spell. Secondly, you get spell combat, which lets you take a full attack and cast a spell in the same round. Third, with the ability to be armored you have considerably better defense than a wizard. Finally, you are 3/4 not 1/2 BAB so you are much more competent in melee. Typically, a Magus can hit just fine between their BAB and arcane pool enhancing their weapon, but their are magus arcana that can help out with accuracy as well. Of course they are not 9-level casters and if you want to cast spells, not really gish a wizard is superior. I wouldn't recommend the Sword binder from a mechanical perspective, but if you love the flavor it is certainly workable, just not optimal compared to other options.
Given what you want your character to do though, I'd actually recommend you take a look at the Inquisitor class. It is divine, not arcane magic but they get good skill points and have the skills you are looking for as class skills. The divine nature melds well with wanting diety focused character anyway, and their ability to add bane to attacks means your weapon damage dice being lower isn't really a problem. If you want an even more 'rogue' feel, Sanctified Slayer does that pretty well and is considered a pretty good archetype....
Thank you for the detailed response! This really has me considering some alternatives that I was overseeing. My character concept is a crazed rogue'ish character that uses trickery, deception, and the ability to melt someone once they've ignored me as a threat.
Considering Inquisitor, Investigator, and Bard now as they are all good skill monkey options. Can Bard or Investigator nova/burst damage decently or just Inquisitor? I'm definitely curious about these options and would love some build suggestions! :)
investigators to great damage as long as you don't dump your combat powers. Personally one of my fav classes
Bard has a few archetypes that can make for a good combatant, but they make him selfish, aka, his inspire courage is now just for him but better. Even the base though can do better in combat than most give credit for.
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investigators to great damage as long as you don't dump your combat powers. Personally one of my fav classes
Bard has a few archetypes that can make for a good combatant, but they make him selfish, aka, his inspire courage is now just for him but better. Even the base though can do better in combat than most give credit for.
Any good suggestion builds or examples? I'd love to see how the Investigator, Inquisitor, and Bard compare among each other. Would love feat suggestions and etc also if there's any stuff that I should highly consider.
Investigator
18/12/14/14/12/7
use a nice THW +4 for 1dX+6
lv3 Mutagen: +4str and +2 natural armor, +8 1dX+9
lv3 power attack, +7 1dX+12
lv4 Studied combat: 1/2 level to attack and damage, +10 1dX+14
lv4 Barkskin and alchemical allocation for heroism +2 AC, Attacks and Saves and skills, +12 1dX+14
lv5 swift study
lv9 Combat inspiration and have an inspired weapon, now you add inspiration to attacks for 1 point and double the roll to damage.
Bard
Archeologist or dawnflower dervish are selfish versions.
The archeologist gets a swift action luck bonus to everything so really likes the fate's favored trait. Dawnflower dervish gets double the normal bonuses for inspire courage but just on them, though it's only a move action till lv10, then swift.
18/12/14/7/12/14
again, nice THW for damage
lv1 archeologist luck +2 (because of fate's favor) or DD +2 to attack and damage
lv3 power attack
lv4 using heroism on self for +2 to attacks.
lv5 arcane strike for +2 to damage most rounds. also archeologist goes up to +3's and DD to +4's.
lv5 +11 for 1dX+14 or +12 1dX+15
Inquisitor
18/12/14/12/14/7
TWH for the win
lv5 you have swift action judgement and swift action BANE!
lv7 you get heroism.
lv5 it's like r1 with bane +8 for 1dX +2d6 +11
none of these are factoring in gear.