Legendary Items: Foe Biter and Legendary Fortification

[Wraithlin]

Under the RAW it appears using these abilities is a "free option", that costs no action and can be activated multiple times per round. Am I missing any errata or rules clarifications that limit the use of these (beyond your pool of Mythic Points)?

Compare:
1. “When a critical hit or sneak attack is scored against a creature wearing an item with this ability, the wearer can expend one use of legendary power to negate the critical hit or sneak attack and instead take normal damage.”
2. “When this item deals damage, its user can use mythic power to double the total amount of damage it deals.”

With the text for Absorb Blow
“As an immediate action, whenever you take hit point damage from a single source (such as a dragon's breath, a spell, or a weapon), you can expend one use of mythic power to reduce the damage you take from that source by 5 per tier”

[Chromantic Durgon <3]

I don't think so no.

its widely established that Foe biter is one of the most powerful abilities in Mythic. Undetectable is stronger though.

[Wraithlin]

That seems very powerful, particularly if combined with Mythic vital strike (bordering on broken if you add in Amazing Initiative, which would essentially allow you to score damage equal to 4x full attacks for 3MP).

Why is undetectable viewed as stronger?

[Chromantic Durgon <3]

Yep thats the standard combo.

Wild Arcana is also pretty incredibly for sorcerers.

have you read it?

Quote:

This grants its bonded user the ability to become utterly undetectable while invisible. While invisible and in physical contact with this item, the bonded creature can’t be detected or scryed by any method.

can't be found by "any method"

If they used greater invisibility to go invisible they can now do anything they like and never be detected. Its like Mind Blank+Greater invisibility, with blindsense/sight and tremorsense and scent all rolled in.

Mythic is a pretty ridiculous set of rules from a power point of view.

[Wraithlin]

Out of interest:

Wouldn't that be countered by Glitterdust, Invisibility purge and other similar effects? These spells don't require a target, and if you are in their area of effect your invisibility is negated.

See Invisibility should also defeat this as if the creature can see you, you aren't invisible to that creature and hence the other factors wouldn't kick in.

[Chromantic Durgon <3]

I think glitter dust and invisibility purge might but Mythic invisibility beats those.

see invisibility I think no because its a method of detection.

And already beaten by mind blank invis combo because its divination.

EDIT: I think there is an argument that none of them work but not sure I want to make it.

[Wraithlin]

Interesting though I think I wouldn't play it that way. The RAW seem pretty clear:

• Is the character invisible?
  
• If yes, then: invisible characters can't be detected or scryed by any other means (e.g. Blindsense, Tremor Sense, Scrying).

If you walk into an Invisibility Purge, you aren't invisible, ergo the other factors don't kick in. Or put another way, the Undetectable ability has a prerequisite of being Invisible. It wouldn't make sense if the ability, once engaged, can fulfill it's own prerequisite (I'm undetectable therefore I must be invisible, therefore I'm undetectable, therefore I'm invisible,...).

Note that Invisible is a condition:
"Invisible creatures are visually undetectable. An invisible creature gains a +2 bonus on attack rolls against sighted opponents, and ignores its opponents’ Dexterity bonuses to AC (if any). See the invisibility special ability."

Further, under special abilities it says this in the entry of Invisible:
"The ability to move about unseen is not foolproof. While they can’t be seen, invisible creatures can be heard, smelled, or felt."

So, the rules-lawyer reading would be:
"While the character has the Invisible condition, other non-vision forms of detection do not function and the creature has unbeatable SR versus scrying and other forms of magical detection."

Given that Invisibility Purge doesn't allow of SR, they would not be invisible when they step within its range. As soon as they lost the invisible condition, they would also loose the other perks. See Invisibility would also beat non-mythic invisibility, as could a lucky area Dispel Magic.

[Chromantic Durgon <3]

Mythic invisibility explicitly calls out all spells for detection of level 1 and 2 so glitter dust and fairy fire are still out.

I think invis purge would work, but basically nothing else.

[Chemlak]

We had a massive discussion about Undetectable somewhere on the boards shortly after Mythic came out (it was inside another discussion, though, so it's not great to search for), and if memory serves the answer is basically as Wraithlin describes: if you're invisible, NOTHING can find you. There are no caveats, no exceptions. If you are asking "but what about...", the answer is almost certainly "no". The one circumstance where it's NOT "certainly "no"", is if something occurs which ends the invisibility. Invisibility purge, anti-magic, disjunction, dispel, whatever.

Neither glitterdust nor faerie fire end invisibility, so undetectable just ignores them. Even see invisibility.

Why?

In the words of SRM: Because Mythic.

[Snowlilly]

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

Mythic invisibility explicitly calls out all spells for detection of level 1 and 2 so glitter dust and fairy fire are still out.

I think invis purge would work, but basically nothing else.

There is no Mythic Greater Invisibility.

Mythic Invisibility + Undetectable allows you to overcome things like Glitterdust, but stops working if you attack.

Greater Invisibility + Undetectable allows you to attack with impunity, but can be overcome with Invisibility Purge, etc.

[Chromantic Durgon <3]

Both can be overcome by invisibility purge its a level 3 spell.

[Snowlilly]

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

Both can be overcome by invisibility purge its a level 3 spell.

Fair enough.