Was wondering if I could get a little clarity how grappling would work for a wild shaped octopus. Say I attack with my first tentacle then automatically roll to grapple due to the grab ability, would I than be able to attack with my other seven tentacles on the same opponent without penalty? What if I decided to at that point attack a second opponent with my other seven tentacles would I suffer a to hit penalty? the following round can I pin with that one tentacle which I grappled with while attacking with the other seven? Or how does it work? Sorry if this sounds confusing.
Could anyone help me out here?
Yes, you still get your other tentacle attacks. Nothing says that grappling someone stops the rest of your attacks. The rules only state that if you start your round grappling someone that you must use a standard action to maintain it, but in the round that you start the grapple you are not maintaining so enjoy your 7 attacks. :)
Yes, you still get your other tentacle attacks. Nothing says that grappling someone stops the rest of your attacks. The rules only state that if you start your round grappling someone that you must use a standard action to maintain it, but in the round that you start the grapple you are not maintaining so enjoy your 7 attacks. :)
Ohh so if in the next round I choose to pin then I lose all my attacks and can only pin that turn?
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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That's right. You need a standard action to pin, which means you won't be able to make a full attack.
As for penalties:
Once you grapple someone, both you and they gain the grappled condition. That gives you both a -2 penalty on attacks and a -4 to Dex. This applies whether you're attacking the person you grappled, or a person outside the grapple. The only exception is on checks made to maintain or escape from the grapple, and tentacles aren't that.
However, if you're attacking the person you grappled, the penalties should balance out. You take a -2 to attack, they get a -2 To AC from the Dex penalty, so your chances of hitting don't change.
That's right. You need a standard action to pin, which means you won't be able to make a full attack.
As for penalties:
Once you grapple someone, both you and they gain the grappled condition. That gives you both a -2 penalty on attacks and a -4 to Dex. This applies whether you're attacking the person you grappled, or a person outside the grapple. The only exception is on checks made to maintain or escape from the grapple, and tentacles aren't that.
However, if you're attacking the person you grappled, the penalties should balance out. You take a -2 to attack, they get a -2 To AC from the Dex penalty, so your chances of hitting don't change.
Ahh I see now. So really there isn't much point in pinning with the octopus it would be better on an animal with fewer attacks. Would the optimal strategy be to grapple them with grab, deal damage for 7 tentacles then the next round release and do a full round of attacks and grapple them at the end of your turn so they are grappled on there turn? rinse and repeat?
Yes, you still get your other tentacle attacks. Nothing says that grappling someone stops the rest of your attacks. The rules only state that if you start your round grappling someone that you must use a standard action to maintain it, but in the round that you start the grapple you are not maintaining so enjoy your 7 attacks. :)Ohh so if in the next round I choose to pin then I lose all my attacks and can only pin that turn?
That is correct.
Ahh I see now. So really there isn't much point in pinning with the octopus it would be better on an animal with fewer attacks. Would the optimal strategy be to grapple them with grab, deal damage for 7 tentacles then the next round release and do a full round of attacks and grapple them at the end of your turn so they are grappled on there turn? rinse and repeat?That's right. You need a standard action to pin, which means you won't be able to make a full attack.
As for penalties:
Once you grapple someone, both you and they gain the grappled condition. That gives you both a -2 penalty on attacks and a -4 to Dex. This applies whether you're attacking the person you grappled, or a person outside the grapple. The only exception is on checks made to maintain or escape from the grapple, and tentacles aren't that.
However, if you're attacking the person you grappled, the penalties should balance out. You take a -2 to attack, they get a -2 To AC from the Dex penalty, so your chances of hitting don't change.
That is legal by the rules, but it is question about it being the intent because animals don't fight that way. However, until Paizo says something about it, then it is fair game from a rules perspective.
That is legal by the rules, but it is question about it being the intent because animals don't fight that way. However, until Paizo says something about it, then it is fair game from a rules perspective.Ahh I see now. So really there isn't much point in pinning with the octopus it would be better on an animal with fewer attacks. Would the optimal strategy be to grapple them with grab, deal damage for 7 tentacles then the next round release and do a full round of attacks and grapple them at the end of your turn so they are grappled on there turn? rinse and repeat?That's right. You need a standard action to pin, which means you won't be able to make a full attack.
As for penalties:
Once you grapple someone, both you and they gain the grappled condition. That gives you both a -2 penalty on attacks and a -4 to Dex. This applies whether you're attacking the person you grappled, or a person outside the grapple. The only exception is on checks made to maintain or escape from the grapple, and tentacles aren't that.
However, if you're attacking the person you grappled, the penalties should balance out. You take a -2 to attack, they get a -2 To AC from the Dex penalty, so your chances of hitting don't change.
Ya I don't see it as being too powerful, if you could pin while hitting with the other tentacles then ya that would be STRONG.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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That is legal by the rules, but it is question about it being the intent because animals don't fight that way. However, until Paizo says something about it, then it is fair game from a rules perspective.Ahh I see now. So really there isn't much point in pinning with the octopus it would be better on an animal with fewer attacks. Would the optimal strategy be to grapple them with grab, deal damage for 7 tentacles then the next round release and do a full round of attacks and grapple them at the end of your turn so they are grappled on there turn? rinse and repeat?That's right. You need a standard action to pin, which means you won't be able to make a full attack.
As for penalties:
Once you grapple someone, both you and they gain the grappled condition. That gives you both a -2 penalty on attacks and a -4 to Dex. This applies whether you're attacking the person you grappled, or a person outside the grapple. The only exception is on checks made to maintain or escape from the grapple, and tentacles aren't that.
However, if you're attacking the person you grappled, the penalties should balance out. You take a -2 to attack, they get a -2 To AC from the Dex penalty, so your chances of hitting don't change.
Since the OP was specifically asking about a wildshaped druid, that sort of sidesteps the issue of whether an animal would fight that way.
Since the OP was specifically asking about a wildshaped druid, that sort of sidesteps the issue of whether an animal would fight that way.That is legal by the rules, but it is question about it being the intent because animals don't fight that way. However, until Paizo says something about it, then it is fair game from a rules perspective.Ahh I see now. So really there isn't much point in pinning with the octopus it would be better on an animal with fewer attacks. Would the optimal strategy be to grapple them with grab, deal damage for 7 tentacles then the next round release and do a full round of attacks and grapple them at the end of your turn so they are grappled on there turn? rinse and repeat?That's right. You need a standard action to pin, which means you won't be able to make a full attack.
As for penalties:
Once you grapple someone, both you and they gain the grappled condition. That gives you both a -2 penalty on attacks and a -4 to Dex. This applies whether you're attacking the person you grappled, or a person outside the grapple. The only exception is on checks made to maintain or escape from the grapple, and tentacles aren't that.
However, if you're attacking the person you grappled, the penalties should balance out. You take a -2 to attack, they get a -2 To AC from the Dex penalty, so your chances of hitting don't change.
Good point
Since the OP was specifically asking about a wildshaped druid, that sort of sidesteps the issue of whether an animal would fight that way.That is legal by the rules, but it is question about it being the intent because animals don't fight that way. However, until Paizo says something about it, then it is fair game from a rules perspective.Ahh I see now. So really there isn't much point in pinning with the octopus it would be better on an animal with fewer attacks. Would the optimal strategy be to grapple them with grab, deal damage for 7 tentacles then the next round release and do a full round of attacks and grapple them at the end of your turn so they are grappled on there turn? rinse and repeat?That's right. You need a standard action to pin, which means you won't be able to make a full attack.
As for penalties:
Once you grapple someone, both you and they gain the grappled condition. That gives you both a -2 penalty on attacks and a -4 to Dex. This applies whether you're attacking the person you grappled, or a person outside the grapple. The only exception is on checks made to maintain or escape from the grapple, and tentacles aren't that.
However, if you're attacking the person you grappled, the penalties should balance out. You take a -2 to attack, they get a -2 To AC from the Dex penalty, so your chances of hitting don't change.
I was just pointing it out so that he understands if his players start throwing books at him.
edit: After rereading I see missed the "druid" being mentioned. I only saw the octopus.
No worries. I guess you can basically throw CMD out the window with this approach as it is wasted. Regardless the enemy is going to spend a standard action trying to break your grapple. If he fails your releasing on your turn anyways.
If I had greater grapple could I maintain the grapple (pin) with my move action and then deal 7 tentacles worth of damage?
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If I had greater grapple could I maintain the grapple with my move action and then deal 7 tentacles worth of damage?
No because you need a full round action to get more than one natural attack in. If you use the move action then you can no longer make a full round action.
What you could do is maintain with a move action, and then grapple again. This is nice if you have constrict because that allows you to get constrict damage twice, and natural attack damage twice.
No worries. I guess you can basically throw CMD out the window with this approach as it is wasted. Regardless the enemy is going to spend a standard action trying to break your grapple. If he fails your releasing on your turn anyways.
If the enemy has a light or one handed weapon they can just full attack you instead of trying to leave your grapple unless you pin them.