Combat Maneuver Magic Weapons Effects


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

From a discussion a long time ago a certain question was raised. I'd like to raise this question again and I'd love if people would put this up as a FAQ candidate along with me.

The question is the following:

Do combat maneuvers that use the weapon, such as sunder and trip, count as a melee attack for the purposes of additional effects that normally take place on a melee attack?

Cheers,
Sorrol


Core Rulebook, p. 199 wrote:

While many combat maneuvers can be performed as part of an attack action, full-attack action, or attack of opportunity (in place of a melee attack), others require a specific action. (...)

When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver. The DC of this maneuver is your target’s Combat Maneuver Defense. Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll.

I would also point out that in table 8-2 (CRB p. 183) combat maneuvers are separate from melee attacks.

As I read it, combat maneuvers are not melee attacks (even if they are being taken in place of a melee attack), but they are still attack rolls. The effects that happen on a hit (like flaming) won't trigger on maneuvers, but those that modify the attack roll (enhancement bonus, bane) or the way the weapon can be used (e.g. ghost touch) will apply. There are also magic abilities that expressly affect maneuvers (e.g. valiant).

Liberty's Edge

FAQ wrote:

Weapon Finesse: If I have this feat, can I apply my Dex bonus to my combat maneuver checks instead of my Strength bonus?

It depends on what combat maneuver you're attempting. Disarm, sunder, and trip are normally the only kinds of combat maneuvers in which you’re actually using a weapon to perform the maneuver, and therefore the weapon’s bonuses apply to the roll. Therefore, if you're attempting a disarm, sunder, or trip maneuver, you can apply your Dex bonus instead of your Str mod on the combat maneuver check (assuming you're using a finessable weapon, of course). For other combat maneuvers, you use the normal rule for determining CMB (Str instead of Dex).

The Agile Maneuvers feat applies to all combat maneuvers, not just disarm, sunder, and trip, so it is still a useful option for a Dex-based creature that uses combat maneuvers.

FAQ wrote:

Trip Weapons: If you want to make a trip combat maneuver, do you have to use a weapon with the trip special feature?

No. When making a trip combat maneuver, you don't have to use a weapon with the trip special feature--you can use any weapon. For example, you can trip with a longsword or an unarmed strike, even though those weapons don't have the trip special feature.
Note that there is an advantage to using a weapon with the trip special feature (a.k.a. a "trip weapon") when making a trip combat maneuver: if your trip attack fails by 10 or more, you can drop the trip weapon instead of being knocked prone.

On a related note, you don't have to use a weapon with the disarm special feature (a.k.a. a "disarm weapon") when making a disarm combat maneuver--you can use any weapon.

Note: This is a revision of this FAQ entry based on a Paizo blog about combat maneuvers with weapons. The previous version of this FAQ stated that using a trip weapon was the only way you could apply weapon enhancement bonuses, Weapon Focus bonuses, and other such bonuses to the trip combat maneuver roll. The clarification in that blog means any weapon used to trip applies these bonuses when making a trip combat maneuver, so this FAQ was updated to omit the "only trip weapons let you apply these bonuses" limitation.

And the cited blog.


So I'm not quite certain what the question here is. It seems too open and vague to have a nice, succint answer like an faq question should. Do damage bonuses count? If there is a damage roll (sunder with a flaming weapon) sure, Does poison effect your enemy when you disarm them? No. Every example I can think of is obvious to me, so what is unclear?


Right, flaming (or similar) ability would work on sunder maneuver (additional damage would be dealt to the attacked item, not the wielder). But it wouldn't deal damage during a maneuver that doesn't deal damage by itself, like trip or disarm.


Exactly.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If the weapon property in question needs to deal damage to the target in order to have it's effect, then it doesn't work (combat maneuvers traditionally don't deal damage).

If it only needs the attack to hit, on the other hand, then I believe it would have its full effect.

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