I want to roll an Archer Warpriest.
Arsenal Chaplain is a really good one for Damage, but I lose a Blessing, scaling Sacred Weapon, Sacred Armor.
There are several Blessing that are quite good, for example Air for an Archer. Getting Fly at level 10 is really good, and no AoO too.
How does exactly VMC Figther works?
For example it says that at level 7 I gain Armor Training I, but there is not AT I, just Armor Training. What exactly do I gain?
How does VMC interact with Arsenal Chaplain?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
For example it says that at level 7 I gain Armor Training I, but there is not AT I, just Armor Training. What exactly do I gain?
At 7th level, you gain the first iteration of Armor Training, the version Fighters typically gain at 3rd level. Which is to say, you reduce the ACP of all armor you wear by -1, and gain the ability to move at full speed in medium armor. At 15th level, when your VMC gives you the second iteration of Armor Training, your ACP decreases by an additional -1, and you gain the ability to move at full speed in heavy armor.
How does VMC interact with Arsenal Chaplain?
For Armor Training, there is no clash, so this much is no problem.
For Weapon Training, there is a clash as the Molthuni Arsenal Chaplain also gets it, but a more limited form.I would rule it that the VMC version works simultaneously with the MAC version. So at 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th, you get the MAC version that increases the weapon training bonus only with your sacred weapons, without allowing you to choose a weapon group. And at 9th and 17th, you also get the VMC version that increases the weapon training bonus in any one weapon group, which may or may not coincide with sacred weapons.
To add on to the Weapon Training conundrum, there is this excerpt from the base class feature:
Bonuses granted from overlapping groups do not stack. Take the highest bonus granted for a weapon if it resides in two or more groups.
So, Arsenal Chaplain would get his standard Weapon Training for his sacred weapons, and then the other Weapon Training benefits for the other weapon groups he chooses from VMC.
In my opinion, Oracle VMC would be the better option, if only for specific Revelations.
I just don't get it, but, you can't have 2 Weapon Training, it doesn't make any sense.
Arsenal Chaplain gets WT as a Fighter, so at level 9 he would get another group, but since bonuses only applies to weapons with Weapon Focus, he can chose an AWT, so being a VMC Fighter either gives:
a - Only Armor Training
b- Gives at level 11 another AWT, because you've got WT at 5 from Arsenal, then at 9 from the same Class Feature and then again at 11.
Actually, I forgot about this FAQ, which implies they would stack, meaning Arsenal Chaplain + Fighter VMC + Gloves of Dueling can get you as high as +8 to attack and damage rolls.
Also, since Arsenal Chaplain gets the actual Weapon Training feature as the Fighter, they would be able to select Advanced Weapon Training options, so you can get goodies like Warrior Spirit and Focused Weapons (AKA you don't actually lose Sacred Weapons).
Same goes for the Armor Training benefits, if you so wished.
Actually, I forgot about this FAQ, which implies they would stack, meaning Arsenal Chaplain + Fighter VMC + Gloves of Dueling can get you as high as +8 to attack and damage rolls.
Also, since Arsenal Chaplain gets the actual Weapon Training feature as the Fighter, they would be able to select Advanced Weapon Training options, so you can get goodies like Warrior Spirit and Focused Weapons (AKA you don't actually lose Sacred Weapons).
Same goes for the Armor Training benefits, if you so wished.
Ok, let's go slowly:
At level 5 I get WT from WP, that's +1 Attack/Damage
At level 9 I get WT from WP again, that's +2 Attack/Damage and 1 AWT option.
At level 11 I get WT from VMC. Does this means I get another +1/+1 and a AWT Option, just 1 of those?
I'm kinda confused on how things work.
Knowing that I gain AWT is just good enough for me though, because I was worried that I wouldn't get those.
Yes, you get another +1/+1 and AWT. You're advancing the same type of feature. It's not much different than the Myrmidarch Magus archetype.
The Arsenal Chaplain says you gain the Fighter Class Feature, which means you pick a Fighter Weapon Group (presumably the one that your Weapon Focus feat is applied to), and then you apply those benefits only to weapons that you have Weapon Focus with. There are several Fighter archetypes that are similarly exclusive (Two-Handed Fighter's choices only works when wielding Two-Handed Weapons, Dragoon only works with Polearms/Spears, and so on), meaning there is a precedent for this stacking on a similar scale.
So, 5th level, you get the standard Weapon Training, whose benefits only apply as long as you have Weapon Focus in said group.
9th level, you improve the bonuses, and then select an AWT option that applies to your chosen weapon group (regardless of whether they're Weapon Focused or not).
11th level, you improve the bonuses further, and then can select either another weapon group (which gives +1 to attack and damage, not requiring Weapon Focus to benefit), or another AWT option (which again, applies regardless of whether they're Weapon Focused or not).
Based on the Myrmidarch Magus FAQ, it all stacks together, and based on the Archetype FAQ, because Arsenal Chaplain references the Weapon Training Fighter class feature, we know they're the same feature.
Thanks to this thread, I can no longer stop calling the Warpriest a joke.
Yes, you get another +1/+1 and AWT. You're advancing the same type of feature. It's not much different than the Myrmidarch Magus archetype.
The Arsenal Chaplain says you gain the Fighter Class Feature, which means you pick a Fighter Weapon Group (presumably the one that your Weapon Focus feat is applied to), and then you apply those benefits only to weapons that you have Weapon Focus with. There are several Fighter archetypes that are similarly exclusive (Two-Handed Fighter's choices only works when wielding Two-Handed Weapons, Dragoon only works with Polearms/Spears, and so on), meaning there is a precedent for this stacking on a similar scale.
So, 5th level, you get the standard Weapon Training, whose benefits only apply as long as you have Weapon Focus in said group.
9th level, you improve the bonuses, and then select an AWT option that applies to your chosen weapon group (regardless of whether they're Weapon Focused or not).
11th level, you improve the bonuses further, and then can select either another weapon group (which gives +1 to attack and damage, not requiring Weapon Focus to benefit), or another AWT option (which again, applies regardless of whether they're Weapon Focused or not).
Based on the Myrmidarch Magus FAQ, it all stacks together, and based on the Archetype FAQ, because Arsenal Chaplain references the Weapon Training Fighter class feature, we know they're the same feature.
Thanks to this thread, I can no longer stop calling the Warpriest a joke.
This is quite interesting. I'm getting the full benefit of Weapon Training, plus an "extra" AWT at level 11 that won't increase my current Weapon Training, but at least I get another benefit.
I need to check if it's actually worth going VMC because of all the feats I'm giving up, but if combined with Human FCB, I get 2 of those back at level 12.
I'm barely counting anything above level 12 since most APs end around there o maybe 15, but you don't get to use those benefits for most of your career