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Hello all! I am playing a Dirge Bard with a hopeful focus on a support/zombie horde style gameplay, but I am starting at level one in a friend's game. I noticed that this doesn't really "come alive" for a Dirge Bard til somewhere like 10-12, so I was looking into option when I came across Variant Multiclassing.
I have my eye on either Cleric, Bones Oracle, or Necromancy Wizard, all mainly to get Command Undead ASAP.
Cleric fits the most thematicly, as she was raised by the church, but would require I use another feat to grab Command Undead seperately and not til level 5 at the earliest, but I could also heal them with the channel or damage any living foes.
Bones Oracle, probably with the Haunted Curse, would let me get Command Undead the earliest at level 3, but not be able to heal with it. Also I worry about the DC on it, and the Cleric for that matter.
Than there is the Necromancy Wizard...I won't lie, I can tell how good this one can be, with a Familiar and counting your total level as your Wizard level for the powers, but sadly this is the latest entry into Command Undead at level 7, and again being unable to heal in a burst.
Any thoughts or advice about which to take if I do? Should I just skip the option entirely? Any general Dirge Bard advice? Any and all help would be appreciated! Thank you. ^.^
Don't focus a bard on undead. You lack all the spells and abilities that make undead usable for other classes. VMC and the dirge bard archetype can improve your abilites SLIGHTLY but you're still way behind any serious undead user. You won't even cast animate dead before level 10 and at that level, you get dance of the dead anyway.
If you want to control undead, just go for charm and dominate spells and cast them on the undead via Secrets of the Grave. There's no need to use VMC to get control undead.
One of my favorite support Bard builds is an enchantment focused dirge bard/sound striker. A very common monster type like undead losing their immunity to your enchantment spells is a huge bonus to such a build. If you do face creatures that are immune to your main spells, you still can use performance and buffs or blast them with Weird Words (be sure to use the FAQ-version).
Also, using perform with half your level as bonus for intimidation is a nice little debuff against weaker foes that are not worth a spell.
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The main reason I want to go as horde as I can is that my GM is letting me take the 3.5 feat Requiem which could a ton of fun. Ontop of that, we are in a fairly undead heavy world, so dominating a bunch early would help me get that fun feeling earlier. Also, by charm and dominate spells I assume you mean the Charm Person/Monster and the dominate equivalents?
I don't think you even need that feat to affect your own undead with your performance in Pathfinder. The friendly (buffing) Bardic Performances are not mind affecting so unless you desperately want to use dirge of doom against enemy undead, I don't see a reason to take the feat.
You could get Command Undead as your bonus necromancy spell at level 6. Most undead at lower levels die too quickly to be useful as minions anyway.
Yes, I meant charm and dominate person/monster. I just re-read the dirge bard and noticed that Charm/Dominate Person doesn't work on undead, even for the Archetype. So you'd need the "Monster" version of those spells.
You could also use suggestion against intelligent undead that speak your language.
Even in an undead heavy campaign, I wouldn't sacrifice 5 feats just so I can occasionaly control some undead. Not when I have spells that do the same or can disable them (cacophonous call is a VERY nasty spell).
One more thing: You might want to be a Gnome with the Fel Magic alternative Racial trait for a sweet +1 DC to all necromancy spells. Also, playing a creepy gnome sounds like it would be fun.
Depends on the spells you pick. I'd get Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus Enchantment. Lingering Performance is nice at low levels. Improved Initiative is always good for a support character (so you can buff/debuff befor the stabbing starts). Persistent Spell for any Save-or-Suck spells. Spell Penetration is always good if you use any kind of offensive spells.
If you go with sound striker as second archetype, extra performance is also quite nice as you'll use your performance rounds as ammunition.
I don't think you even need that feat to affect your own undead with your performance in Pathfinder. The friendly (buffing) Bardic Performances are not mind affecting so unless you desperately want to use dirge of doom against enemy undead, I don't see a reason to take the feat.
Inspire courage is mind affecting. It does not normally work on undead. Neitther does the fascinate/suggestion performance, or inspire competence, or mass heroics.
A dirge bard's Charm Person won't work on undead, but her Suggestion and Lesser Geas sure will--she can get those at levels 4 and 7.
For buffing undead, Haste is always great, but she can also use spells like Heroism and Rage and Good Hope that normally would not work on them.
Note that a dirge basd is an excellent class to take if you plan to become undead.
Inspire courage is mind affecting.
Oh boy, I specifically checked before I posted and still missed it completely. Thanks for clearing that up!
I am still considering doing a VMC, any thoughts on those options? ^^
Well, the goal is to get Command Undead.
Benefit: As a standard action, you can use one of your uses of channel negative energy to enslave undead within 30 feet. Undead receive a Will save to negate the effect. The DC for this Will save is equal to 10 + 1/2 your cleric level + your Charisma modifier. Undead that fail their saves fall under your control, obeying your commands to the best of their ability, as if under the effects of control undead. Intelligent undead receive a new saving throw each day to resist your command. You can control any number of undead, so long as their total Hit Dice do not exceed your cleric level. If you use channel energy in this way, it has no other effect (it does not heal or harm nearby creatures). If an undead creature is under the control of another creature, you must make an opposed Charisma check whenever your orders conflict.
Cleric: Gain Command Undead at level 7, effective level character level -6, putting your DC way back and - more importantly - limits the HD of undead you can control to almost nothing. At level 7, you'll be able to control a "whopping" ONE HD of undead. At VERY high levels (11+) his slowly improves to usable numbers.
Oracle: Get Command Undead at level 3, effective level character level -6 (minimum 1). Same as above but with slightly more uses (3 + Char). Same limitation on HD, but without any improvement.
Necromancer: Get Command Undead at level 7. Lower number of uses unless you have high int, but NO penalty to DC or number of controled HD. Also gains a familiar early on which at worst is a free feat and at best a great asset. Also gets a free feat at level 15. Basically reduces the cost of using VMC by 2 feats. Could also probably take the Undead focused school to get a touch buff for his undead minions.
So... yeah, if anything, go necromancer.