Building a Crossbow Expert.


Advice

Silver Crusade

I have always been interested in a crossbow expert type of character. not just a sniping character but an all around expert with the crossbow. Are there any builds out there that can give me what I want?


You probably want Crossbow Mastery feat, which you can acquire at 6+.

There's a fighter archetype, but it traps you into fighting in a subpar fashion (not full attacking).

Ranger 6+ for Improved Precise Shot early is a good start to any build (you may actually want to do archery style not crossbow -- for the level 2 feats and IPS at 6 they share all the options you'd be picking anyway and by strict RAW only archery rangers can take Point Blank Master as a bonus feat, sadly).

Crossbow would be a good option for Eldritch Knight instead of the bow for a ranged attacker build. The capstone is based on critting, so you'll get to use it ~twice as often w/ a crossbow as you would a bow.


You're going to have a hard time playing a crossbow character. That is their damage is worse than a longbow and requires extra feats to operate on the same level as the longbow.


I disagree with the above. You can focus solely on dex and have a better to hit; combined with Deadly Aim you will make up for the lack fo str. You can also get a higher base weapon damage - d10 with heavy crossbow, which benefits more from gravity bow.

Main problems with crossbow is 1) It takes more feats to work and archery is already feat heavy and 2) It can't get Manyshot, which is a major damage loss at higher levels.

Silver Crusade

Would Many Shot not work with say a "repeating crossbow"?


Quote:

Manyshot (Combat)

You can fire multiple arrows at a single target.

Prerequisites: Dex 17, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, base attack bonus +6.

Benefit: When making a full-attack action with a bow, your first attack fires two arrows. If the attack hits, both arrows hit. Apply precision-based damage (such as sneak attack) and critical hit damage only once for this attack. Damage bonuses from using a composite bow with a high Strength bonus apply to each arrow, as do other damage bonuses, such as a ranger's favored enemy bonus. Damage reduction and resistances apply separately to each arrow.

Unfortunately, RAW...no.


One thing crossbow users can do is critical feats. At high level, crossbows with Improved Critical crit on a 17-20. With a few nice feats you can put together a fearsome high-level sniper.

Though it might be better to build him as a ranger.


StreamOfTheSky wrote:

I disagree with the above. You can focus solely on dex and have a better to hit; combined with Deadly Aim you will make up for the lack fo str. You can also get a higher base weapon damage - d10 with heavy crossbow, which benefits more from gravity bow.

Main problems with crossbow is 1) It takes more feats to work and archery is already feat heavy and 2) It can't get Manyshot, which is a major damage loss at higher levels.

You proved my point in the same post you said you disagreed with me.

Silver Crusade

So what's really the point in even using a crossbow?


Robespierre wrote:
StreamOfTheSky wrote:

I disagree with the above. You can focus solely on dex and have a better to hit; combined with Deadly Aim you will make up for the lack fo str. You can also get a higher base weapon damage - d10 with heavy crossbow, which benefits more from gravity bow.

Main problems with crossbow is 1) It takes more feats to work and archery is already feat heavy and 2) It can't get Manyshot, which is a major damage loss at higher levels.

You proved my point in the same post you said you disagreed with me.

By damage is worse than a longbow you meant specifically Manyshot?

Cause that's not even a factor till at least level 6, and your statement was pretty vague.


shallowsoul wrote:
So what's really the point in even using a crossbow?

You can fire while prone, I guess. And some crossbows are simpler weapons. And a hand crossbow can be used in one hand, and I guess crossbows are better if you have a Str penalty.

But in general, no real point, except style. Crossbows are essentially a linearly inferior option to bows in Pathfinder. They do have a higher crit range, I guess, so that's one angle. It's not a real choice from a mechanical perspective. Bows are just better - way better.

Grand Lodge

Only use I found for a heavy crossbow was, as a low-level character, it gives a nice, nasty, one-shot attack at the beginning of combat.

For characters that don't have bow proficiency, a light crossbow makes a decent last-ditch ranged weapon.

Other than that, mechanically, a crossbow is pretty weak compared to even a shortbow due to rate of fire.

In the real world crossbows were effective because you could train someone to use one in a much shorter time than teaching them to be effective with a regular bow. The nature of the crossbow means that it's easier to aim and fire accurately, but your rate of fire and range suffer.
Also, a heavy crossbow will punch through a steel breastplate or plate mail, but a historical longbow has difficulty getting enough force to shoot an arrow through it. Reloading times were an issue, but if you're on top of a stone wall behind crenelations while shooting down at a mass of enemy soldiers, you can afford to take your time to duck down and reload.


You're always better off with rapid reload and a light crossbow than a repeater, just because you cannot speed up reloading a case of bolts. That is, of course, if you plan on shooting more than 5 bolts in a combat.


The crossbowman fighter archetype might actually work well as a caster disrupter. That's one role where you want to use readied actions.

Readied actions are standard actions so Vital Strike should work with them. You don't lose much vital striking with a crossbow, just the weapon plusses and deadly aim and devastating strike will compensate for only getting deadly aim once.

The archetype is Vital Strike friendly until level 15 and can be stretched out with dips in Urban Barbarian and Ranger, the former getting you more dexterity and the latter the ability to use gravity bow wands.


Two weapon fighting Fighter w/ hand crossbows FTW.

W/ rapid reload, rapid shot and a 2 level dip into vivisectionist for a vestigial arm (to have a free hand for reloading the crossbows) you can have 8 attacks a round i.e. more than a standard archer.

Will this actually be good…? That's debateable
Is it ridiculous and awesome? Hell yes!

EDIT: Another even stupider version without the vestigial arm: Use quickdraw, and draw a new crossbow for every attack! No need for rapid reload even!


I only can think of one build that i would use a crossbow as main weapon. That's an alchimist sniper.

Race: Half-orc (1/2 level to bomb damage)
Class: Alchemist
Level: 8th

Pointbuy 20:

STR: 10
DEX: 17 (+1 at 4th level)
CON: 14
INT: 15 (+1 at 8th level)
WIS: 10
CHA: 10

Feats:

1st: Point-Blank Shot
3rd: Precise Shot
5th: Deadly Aim
7th: Bullseye Shot

Discoveries:
2nd: Infusion
4th: Explosive Missile
6th: Precise Bombs
8th: Confusion Bomb or Force Bomb

This guy can:
1. Load and fire his heavy crossbob as standard action
2. Gets Int + half level damage on his heavy crossbow when shooting bombs
3. Gets a ranged trip or a confusion debuf on every hit
4. Can use a move action to get a +4 to hit

Not an overoptimised build but a solid 30 damage per round(@ level 8) with a nice debuff effect on every shot and some selfbuff options ...

Breiti

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