Crossblooded Bloodrager (Abyssal-Elemental)

[Glorf Fei-Hung]

Ok, So I have a concept for a Crossblooded Bloodrager and I just wanted to run some of the key points past some of my fellow rules lawyers. This will be a PFS Character so I want to make sure I's are dotted and T's Crossed. The big (no pun intended) question won't come into play until level 16, so it's not a deal breaker if it doesn't work, it would just make the character less likely to run one of the 12+ Modules.

So ultimately my question comes down to applying the Abyssal's Demonic Bulk in conjuction with the Elemental's Elemental Form.

My interpretation is that Elemental Form (choosing Air) would make me a Huge Air Elemental and since Demonic Bulk works even if you aren't humanoid it would be a Gargantuan sized Huge Air Elemental. All the stats and abilities would be of the Huge version.
So Question 1: Does Elemental Form + Demonic Bulk Equal a Gargantuan sized Huge Air Elemental?

Next (if Question 1 is YES) the Whirlwind is a size based ability that says the ability is based off the "Size of the Elemental you Transformed into". There is no Gargantuan Elemental, but the next step up from Huge would be Greater Air Elemental.

So, Question 2: Does that work off the Huge Elemental size that I transformed into by STATS, or does it work off a Gargantuan(Greater) Elemental size that I transformed into by SIZE?

Finally Question 3: As a Gargantuan Creature I am 3 size categories above Medium, so Medium and smaller creatures should be able to occupy my space, and I can occupy theirs. So I could essentially create a protective shield around members of my party, anything trying to reach them would Literally, have to go through me. They should be able to use spells/ranged to attack things further away, but I'm assuming I would provide cover on any ranged attacks (both ways, party attacking enemy, and enemy attacking party) unless they had improved precise shot?

Relavant PRD Excerpts Below:

Demonic Bulk Text:

Demonic Bulk (Su): At 4th level, when entering a bloodrage, you can grow one size category larger than your base size (as enlarge person) even if you aren't humanoid.

Elemental Form Text:

Elemental Form (Su): At 16th level, once per day when entering a bloodrage, you can take an elemental form, as per elemental body IV.

Elemental Body IV&I Text:

This spell functions as elemental body III, except that it also allows you to assume the form of a Huge air, earth, fire, or water elemental. The abilities you gain depend upon the type of elemental into which you change. You are also immune to bleed damage, critical hits, and sneak attacks while in elemental form and gain DR 5/—.

Elemental abilities based on size, such as burn, vortex, and whirlwind, use the size of the elemental you transform into to determine their effect.

Whirlwind Text:

Whirlwind (Su) Some creatures can transform themselves into whirlwinds and remain in that form for up to 1 round for every 2 HD they have. If the creature has a fly speed, it can continue to fly at that same speed while in whirlwind form, otherwise it gains a fly speed equal to its base land speed (average maneuverability) while in whirlwind form.

The whirlwind is always 5 feet wide at its base, but its height and width at the top vary from creature to creature (minimum 10 feet high). A whirlwind's width at its peak is always equal to half of its height. The creature controls the exact height, but it must be at least 10 feet high.

The whirlwind form does not provoke attacks of opportunity, even if the creature enters the space another creature occupies. Another creature might be caught in the whirlwind if it touches or enters the whirlwind, or if the whirlwind moves into or through a creature's space. A creature in whirlwind form cannot make its normal attacks and does not threaten the area around it.

Creatures one or more size categories smaller than the whirlwind might take damage when caught in the whirlwind (generally damage equal to the monster's slam attack for a creature of its size) and may be lifted into the air. An affected creature must succeed on a Reflex save (DC 10 + half monster's HD + the monster's Strength modifier) when it comes into contact with the whirlwind or take damage as if it were hit by the whirlwind creature's slam attack. It must also succeed on a second Reflex save or be picked up bodily and held suspended in the powerful winds, automatically taking the indicated damage each round. A creature that can fly is allowed a Reflex save each round to escape the whirlwind. The creature still takes damage but can leave if the save is successful.

Creatures trapped in the whirlwind cannot move except to go where the whirlwind carries them or to escape the whirlwind. Trapped creatures can otherwise act normally, but must succeed on a concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to cast a spell. Creatures caught in the whirlwind take a –4 penalty to Dexterity and a –2 penalty on attack rolls. The whirlwind can have only as many creatures trapped inside at one time as will fit inside the whirlwind's volume. The whirlwind can eject any carried creatures whenever it wishes as a free action, depositing them in its space.

If the whirlwind's base touches the ground, it creates a swirling cloud of debris. This cloud is centered on the creature and has a diameter equal to half the whirlwind's height. The cloud obscures all vision, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. Creatures 5 feet away have concealment, while those farther away have total concealment. Those caught in the cloud of debris must succeed on a concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to cast a spell.

Format: whirlwind (3/day, 10–30 ft. high, 1d6+6 damage, DC 15); Location: Special Attacks.

Occupying a Square Text:

Square Occupied by Creature Three Sizes Larger or Smaller: Any creature can move through a square occupied by a creature three size categories larger than itself.

[Chess Pwn]

Since it's as enlarge person it doesn't work.
you can't have 2 magical ways of becoming larger, which in practicality, you can't have two ways of becoming larger.

So if you activated both you'd have to decide which one actually doesn't work.

So this means you don't have to be crossblooded, YAY!!!

[Darksol the Painbringer]

1. Per the FAQ, the two abilities won't stack, because they are both actual size increases. At best, you can argue that one adjusts your original size to a specific category, while the one increases your current size, but the factor that Demonic Bulk only applies to your base size (which is Medium, as your Huge size is an adjustment) means you still can't get any larger than Huge, since Demonic Bulk applies to your base size, without any adjustments.

2. Even if you found a way to make them stack, the RAW regarding Elemental Body refers to the size you transform into, meaning any effects which increase your size wouldn't alter the Whirlwind benefits in any manner.

3. That's not exactly a smart tactic, because then you're purposefully damaging your party members while they aren't able to do a whole lot, and any actions they take will be hampered (such as trying to cast a spell incurring a concentration check, or combat maneuvers having penalties to hit). On top of that, the enemies can still hit your allies without issue, since all you're doing is providing soft cover (+4 AC) at best, and at worst you're actually helping your enemies kill your allies.

It'd be smarter if you went on top of the enemy and serve as a means of battlefield control, letting your allies focus on other enemies instead.

[Glorf Fei-Hung]

Chess Pwn wrote:

Since it's as enlarge person it doesn't work.

you can't have 2 magical ways of becoming larger, which in practicality, you can't have two ways of becoming larger.

So if you activated both you'd have to decide which one actually doesn't work.

So this means you don't have to be crossblooded, YAY!!!

Actually it means no such thing, as I mentioned this is a PFS Character and there's no telling if it will ever see 12+. It just means that if it does get to 16+ I'd be splitting between the two options, or just taking the lvl 16 abyssal power instead.

I'm running Crossblooded for the option to get enlarge person from Abyssal and Flight at lvl 8 from elemental.

But thanks for the help guys, I did miss the "Base size" call out in Demon Bulk.

[Glorf Fei-Hung]

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

3. That's not exactly a smart tactic, because then you're purposefully damaging your party members while they aren't able to do a whole lot, and any actions they take will be hampered (such as trying to cast a spell incurring a concentration check, or combat maneuvers having penalties to hit). On top of that, the enemies can still hit your allies without issue, since all you're doing is providing soft cover (+4 AC) at best, and at worst you're actually helping your enemies kill your allies.

It'd be smarter if you went on top of the enemy and serve as a means of battlefield control, letting your allies focus on other enemies instead.

It's not going to work without the stacking demon bulk anyway (unless my allies/enemies are small creatures), but just for clarity's sake I was not planning on being on top of my allies in whirlwind form, but in the standard air elemental form. To my knowledge that deals no damage to people occupying the same space as me. so whether I am over allies or enemies really doesn't matter, I should still provide the same Cover Bonuses to both sides.