Red Mantis Assassin Prayer Attack

[Danzibe1989]

A monster I am fighting has immunity to death effects and massive damage.
Does a Prayer Attack by a Red Mantis Assassin count as either of those?

[Outlaw Corwin]

Prayer Attack is not a death effect. Nowhere in the ability does it state it is. Spells like Power Word Kill or Finger of Death specifically have Death as part of the spell descriptor. A Banshee's Wail is specifically stated to be a death effect. Coup de gracing a guy with a blade doesn't have any special effect past what coup de grace states. Else immunity to death effects would make a creature immune to every weapon & spell in the game.

Massive damage is separate from a coup de grace. Each has their own rules.

So you're good. Unless the enemy is immune to fascinate, critical hits, or has a buddy to standard action shake the fascinate effect off.

On a related note, the fascinated condition doesn't state it's mind-affecting, but the bard version does. So it seems by RAW being immune to mind-affecting effects wouldn't save the creature either.

[Danzibe1989]

my DM believes that coupe de grace is a death effect.

[swoosh]

Well, your GM can believe whatever he wants since he's in charge, but by the rules a coup de grace is not a death effect.

Not sure why he'd think coup de graces would prevent resurrection though.

[Danzibe1989]

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/devil/warmonger -levaloch

This was what we were fighting. I did my Red Mantis Prayer Attack and he said they were immune to the fort save or die from it from the Coupe de Grace.

[Plausible Pseudonym]

He's right but you're confusing the issue by referring to death attacks. Coupe de Grace isn't a death effects, but constructs are immune to anything requiring a Fortitude save that doesn't effect objects. CdG has a Fortitude save, and you can't coup de grace a chair to death, so they don't work on constructs or this creature because it gets related construct immunities. A coup de grace would still be an automatic crit for extra damage, though.

[Danzibe1989]

Plausible Pseudonym wrote:

He's right but you're confusing the issue by referring to death attacks. Coupe de Grace isn't a death effects, but constructs are immune to anything requiring a Fortitude save that doesn't effect objects. CdG has a Fortitude save, and you can't coup de grace a chair to death, so they don't work on constructs or this creature because it gets related construct immunities. A coup de grace would still be an automatic crit for extra damage, though.

it has a few abilities from construct immunities and those abilities are listed. its not immune to crit, thus not immune to coupe de grace. read it again.

[Danzibe1989]

and i'm also not referring my issue to death attacks. My DM said that they couldn't be fort save or die by the coup de grace from Prayer Attack because of "immunities" Prayer Attack doesn't fall under his immunities because its not a death attack or nor death effect. But my DM believes they are because its "Fort save or die"

[Plausible Pseudonym]

Danzibe1989 wrote:

it has a few abilities from construct immunities and those abilities are listed. its not immune to crit, thus not immune to coupe de grace. read it again.

Constructs are also not immune to crits, but they are immune to the coupe de grace death save.

Warmonger Devil wrote:

Construct Form

Despite being true devils, levalochs possess a number of immunities common to constructs, including immunity to ability damage, ability drain, death effects, death from massive damage, disease, energy drain, exhaustion, fatigue, necromancy effects, nonlethal damage, paralysis, sleep effects, and stunning. Upon being reduced to 0 hit points, they are immediately destroyed.

I think it's very obvious that a creature that shares the construct immunities to death effects, death from massive damage, necromancy, is destroyed at zero HP, etc. etc. is intended to also be immune to anything requiring a Fort save that doesn't effect living things. The only construct immunities it is apparently not intended to share are mind affecting/morale, everything based on the physical form it gets. Bestiary entries are very space constrained, inferring this is a pretty easy call.

[swoosh]

Quote:

The only construct immunities it is apparently not intended to share are mind affecting

Why not? You've arbitrarily decided that it should get an extra immunity it doesn't have listed in its stat block, why not both?

Quote:

Bestiary entries are very space constrained, inferring this is a pretty easy call.

Writing "receives immunities as a construct" or "Immunities: construct traits" or somesuch would have cut down on word count significantly though.

"A number of" is clearly not the same as "All of". So when it lists all of the construct immunities except two, there's no reason not to assume that they do, in fact, get all of those immunities and don't get the ones it doesn't say they get. Because that's what the text says.

[Danzibe1989]

Correct. Its not listed, so it ain't got it.