Hello all,
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.
I wanted to ask for some suggestions on something I was working to play as a character but I'll give you the context first.
I'm still new to Pathfinder first and foremost but I'm learning quickly (atleast I'd like to think so) and I'm a substitute fill in player for a homebrew campaign and I'm working on a character to bring in for the event one of the player spots open up.
I would be making a character for level 10, there even is a chance I might not even get to play as I've heard from browsing the messageboards that most campaigns don't even get to level 20 usually?
The campaign is a desert world, things are dying and decaying etc and the GM already stated that there will be NO 3RD PARTY content, only Paizo (approved?) published stuff.
Alot of the reference I get is from the d20pfsrd website so I still check to make sure the things I look at don't read "3rd party publisher".
Attacks of Opportunity are in a weird spot, as they are limited to things granted from feats and abilities, as moving in and out of threatened zones doesn't provoke but if you move directly INTO their square (or pass through) via acrobatics as an example WILL PROVOKE.
Moving on:
The world has Dwarves, Humans, Elves, Half-Elves, Half-orcs & Gnomes, it also happens to have Lizardfolk.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races/standard-races-1-10-rp /lizardfolk-8-rp
Being in the desert setting, I wouldn't have the swim racial features but instead the climb features.
As per the lore with his world, the Lizardfolk character would have to be mean to others or basically a D**k. So I was going to go with a Chaotic Neutral (leaning almost evil).
So I was thinking of a Fighter with a level 1 dip into an Rogue Archetype (Rake).
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue -archetypes/rake
Here is the planned build idea.
17 point buy (Characters do not start with traits but could take additional traits feat)
STR 12 [+2 to 14]
DEX 19
CON 12 [+2 to 14]
INT 18
WIS 10
CHR 8
2x Kukri's [Masterwork]
Agile Breastplate [Masterwork]
Lvl 1: Combat Expertise
Lvl 1 Bonus: Two-weapon fighting
Lv 2 Bonus: Weapon Focus
Lv 3: Dodge ; Armor Training
Lv 4 Bonus:Mobility
Lv 5: Spring Attack ; Weapon Training group Light Blades
Lv 6 Bonus: Weapon Finesse (Combat)
Lv 7: Circling Mongoose (Combat) ; Advanced armor training [Armor Specialization - Agile Breastplate]
Lv8 bonus: Improved Critical (Combat)
CLv9 [Rogue lv 1 Dip]: Endurance
CLv10 [Fighter lv9]: NO FEATS HERE ; Advanced Weapon training - Focused Weapon
Planed later levels but are still unknown choices:
CLv11 [Fighter lv10] bonus: Critical Focus (Combat)
CLv11: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (Combat)
CLv12: AAT - Armed Confidence
CLv13 Bonus [Fighter 12]: Bleeding Critical
CLv13: Iron Will
CLv14: AWT - Defensive Weapon Training
CLv15 Bonus [Fighter 14]: Staggering/Crippling Critical
CLv15 [Fighter 14]: Critical Mastery or Weapon Versatility (combat)
CLv16 [Fighter 15]: Armor Training again for +dex bonus or AAT: Critical Deflection/Master Armorer
CLv17 Bonus [Fighter 16]: Just out of reach
CLv17: ??? Feat / Weapon Specialization?
CLv18 [Fighter 17]: AWT - Armed Bravery
CLv19 Bonus [Fighter 18]: ??? Feat
CLv19: ??? Feat
CLv20 [Fighter 19]: Armor Mastery
AC Total: 25 [28 w/ Combat Expertise]
- 8 from Armor
- 4 from Dex bonus (armor)
- 1 from Dodge
- 2 Natural armor
Modifiers for weapons etc:
- Weapon Finesse: Add Dex to attack rolls (+4)
- Weapon Training [Light blades group]: add +2 to attack and damage rolls
- Weapon Focus: (+1)
- Enhancement Bonuses (if any): +1 Attack
- Two Weapon Fighting: -2 penalty attack rolls (Light weapons & feat) or -4 if no light in off hand
- Combat Expertise: -3 attack rolls & Combat maneuver for +3 dodge bonus
- Natural Attack penalty: -5 for natural attacks as full round action with manufactured weapons (Classed down to Secondary natural attacks)
Lizardfolk Fighter is a mercenary as backstory because he is an EXILED lizardfolk for his birth being an superstitious omen, having to deal with oddball requests and has to be deal with various things thrown at him. Rude and bloodcrazed [psycho?] and gets kicks demoralizing others with being actually smart (was thinking of taking Bruising Intellect with additional traits feat) and puts focus on being mobile and agile.
Idea is:
- To constantly keep up Combat expertise (don't get hit)
- Get in opponents face (originally going to take spring-heeled style and sprint to forcibly get into range)
- Crit fish to apply effects to make it harder for opponents to react to.
Circling Mongoose makes subsequent attacks count as flanking.
Forgo the 1d6 to make intimidate check to demoralize to give shaken.
Kurki's with Cruel effect to make them sickened.
Staggering Critical to further make things worse with a Bleeding Critical for an added threat to their action economy.
- Weapon Versitality to change between damage types with Kukri's
Commentary synapse:
Why am I using TWF? Well because the GM has decided he didn't want to see more Two handed greatswords and wants something different (thanks to the Cleric with the War/Strength domain enlarging himself 3x his size since he pulls double duty of healing and damage w/ the Rogue and Monk).
I most likely won't be outputting huge numbers per round, but I'd like to think that maybe I can make up for it if I try to debuff and still outlast fights through attrition.
What I'm afraid of though is the GM likes to throw stuff that challenges the players on what they are weak at.
He started using Constructs and undead so that puts alot of anything requiring fortitude saves and being mindless negating the shaken sickened and staggering stuff.
I'm also expecting because of low will saves, that there is a chance to encounter things that might try to dominate/mind control a character like this.
I know everything is circumstantial and most likely I bet what I'm trying to do is best done with a different class but I am kinda tied to the armor/weapon training features and the extra feats (who doesn't like extra feats right?).
Another thing is gold appears to kinda scarce as well as finding equipment, so I was already planning to possibly make my own weapons and armor (Reason for even more INT heavy skills). Maybe even be forced to take Master craftsman to get Craft magic arms and armor...
Any critique or thoughts maybe on this?
inb4 I get called a munchkin and apologies for my format, hopefully I made it clear enough to read.
Attacks of Opportunity are in a weird spot, as they are limited to things granted from feats and abilities, as moving in and out of threatened zones doesn't provoke but if you move directly INTO their square (or pass through) via acrobatics as an example WILL PROVOKE.
...well, I would never play a fighting in this game. You don't provoke unless you do things like acrobatics and spells (I guess)?
Reach builds are one of the strongest things possible for fighters. It can completely change the dynamics of a class that is mostly just good at 'hitting things'.
Reach turns the art of 'hitting things' into a 25' wide circle of pain that threatens anyone that wants to get at the back line of squishy casters and archers. It turns you into a living obstacle. And this is made worse by trip build and the like, that further punish trying to get by you.
While reach still has advantages in getting full attacks (at least if you exploit it with things like lunge)... but without AoOs, it all seems rather empty.
So, I'm not very good at answering these "advice on builds" threads because I'm not sure what you want to keep vs. what you want help on... But here's what I can tell you:
Play what is fun for you. If you look at this character and you feel disappointed in any way, look at other options. From what you have provided, your character's numbers look "solid", and overall concept is not optimized (which is fine), but seems quite flexible (which I think as a good thing).
Things to consider: A level one dip in rogue isn't really much use, look into maybe 3 levels into unchained rogue if your GM allows (it will also let you use dex for damage with those kukris).
You seem to be lacking an arcane caster in your party... If you'd like to help fill the role, while keeping most of your melee potential, looking into a Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 4, taking the "Magical Knack" trait to keep full caster level. Only a suggestion, if you are set on a non magic class, ignore this.
Anyways, I hope you have fun! Good Luck!
Attacks of Opportunity are in a weird spot, as they are limited to things granted from feats and abilities, as moving in and out of threatened zones doesn't provoke but if you move directly INTO their square (or pass through) via acrobatics as an example WILL PROVOKE....well, I would never play a fighting in this game. You don't provoke unless you do things like acrobatics and spells (I guess)?
Reach builds are one of the strongest things possible for fighters. It can completely change the dynamics of a class that is mostly just good at 'hitting things'.
Reach turns the art of 'hitting things' into a 25' wide circle of pain that threatens anyone that wants to get at the back line of squishy casters and archers. It turns you into a living obstacle. And this is made worse by trip build and the like, that further punish trying to get by you.
While reach still has advantages in getting full attacks (at least if you exploit it with things like lunge)... but without AoOs, it all seems rather empty.
- Khell:
I could still go for something that revolves around AoO's, it just means that I'd have to have the feats that forcibly make them appear.Like if I had snap shot(?) to threaten squares to make AoO's.
So something like Combat Reflexes if I remember right? I could then capitalize on that. But even then I guess it would just be a personal taste if I want to go down that route.
So, I'm not very good at answering these "advice on builds" threads because I'm not sure what you want to keep vs. what you want help on... But here's what I can tell you:
Play what is fun for you. If you look at this character and you feel disappointed in any way, look at other options. From what you have provided, your character's numbers look "solid", and overall concept is not optimized (which is fine), but seems quite flexible (which I think as a good thing).
Things to consider: A level one dip in rogue isn't really much use, look into maybe 3 levels into unchained rogue if your GM allows (it will also let you use dex for damage with those kukris).
You seem to be lacking an arcane caster in your party... If you'd like to help fill the role, while keeping most of your melee potential, looking into a Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 4, taking the "Magical Knack" trait to keep full caster level. Only a suggestion, if you are set on a non magic class, ignore this.
Anyways, I hope you have fun! Good Luck!
- Khell:
I agree, I want to play what is fun to me and I thought of being an agile and mobile lizardfolk would sound fun, weaving in attacks in bloodthirst at vitals and being crazed and pulling (thematically) evading dodges.I took the level one dip into rogue because the Archetype gives me Bravado's Blade:
When a rake hits an opponent and deals sneak attack damage, she can forgo 1d6 points of that damage and make a free Intimidate check to demoralize the foe. For every additional 1d6 points of sneak attack damage she forgoes, she receives a +5 circumstance bonus on this check.
This ability replaces trapfinding.
Instead of going down Power attack to Cornugon smash, I could atleast still have this means to make demoralizing checks to shaken without involving feats and I can use this in conjunction with Circling Mongoose because my first attack and subsequent attacks count as flanking for sneak attack.
Since I was also investing alot into skills already, almost being a secondary skill monkey, I figured the extra skill points from the class wouldn't hurt either.
I'm kinda attached to:
- Extra Feats
- Armor & weapon training features
- Idea of Dual welding
I technically could play a Magus since indeed the group IS LACKING another spellcaster and I'm already playing one in a different campaign by a different GM so it wouldn't be new to me but honestly I'd have to think of something different because trying to Gish would be something I'd lean on at that point.
The GM already doesn't allow unchained rogue and monk since the current characters in the group happen to be a regular rogue, regular monk, and a two-handing enlarging powerattacking greatsword cleric.
I like to think of the classes and multiclassing more being a way to express HOW the character is supposed to show his playstyle, as opposed to:
- I have rogue class levels, so I have to be the stereotypical thief!
If you're into demoralizing foes the rogue archetype you want is thug not rake. Frightened is significantly better than shaken, and you keep the sneak attack damage. Enforcer and a merciful kukri is another way to get free demoralize.
Just throwing this out there - a single level dip into Brawler has been a benefit to pretty much every martial build I've seen. Martial Flexibility 4/day is worth the single level alone.
With the attributes you show listed I'd also recommend a single level dip into the Inspired Blade archetype for Swashbuckler. Tons of free feats right off the bat and Opportune Parry and Riposte to go along with everything else.
Honestly, going with a level of Inspired Blade, a level of Brawler and then three levels of Thug (Unchained Rogue) before committing to Fighter could make for a really interesting, versatile character... and if you go that route, don't forget about Accomplished Sneak Attacker.
Thank you for the suggestions guys!
@ avr:
I suppose it would make sense to take Thug instead of Rake for what I'm doing is focusing on demoralizing foes.
@ Wiggz:
The Brawler has an appeal to it and sparked something to take a dip into for a completely different reason after I did more research.
Since it gives Improved unarmed strike it got me thinking about making use of it.
For the swashbuckler dipping, I would love the idea of parrying but I cannot wrap my head around the idea of using a Rapier.
It really doesn't fit in the theme or persona I'm going for with this character.
I really wish there was a way to parry that didn't involve a Rapier (or piercing weapon for that matter).
I did try toying the possible but silly idea of parrying with my crocodile-like bite (mouth) lol but I'm not sure if it would be even worth the time to capitalize on it.
----
Moving on.
With the Brawler dip and changing to the Rogue dip archetype to Thug.
Tell me how feasible or silly this is:
Fighter 8 / Brawler 1 / Thug 1
Lv1 Standard: Endurance
Lv1 FBonus: Weapon Focus - Blade
CLv2 [Brawler Dip]: Improved Unarmed Strike
CLv3 [Rogue Dip]: Power attack
CLv4 FBonus 2: Combat Expertise
CLv5: Skill Focus - Intimidate
CLv6 FBonus 4: Cornugon Smash
CLv7 F5: Improved Grapple
CLv8 FBonus 6: Greater Grapple
CLv9 F7: Death Roll
CLvl 10 FBonus 8: Hamatula Strike
AFTERWARDS:
CLvl11 F9: Critical Focus
CLvl12 F10 Bonus: Bleeding Critical
CLvl13 F11: Multiattack or Eldritch Claws?
CLvl14 F12 Bonus: Crippling, Staggering or Tiring Critical Feat
CLvl15 F13: ???
CLvl16 F14 Bonus: ???
CLvl17 F15: ???
CLvl18 F16 Bonus: ???
CLvl19 F17: ???
CLvl20 F18 Bonus: ???
STR 17 [+3]
DEX 18 [+4]
CON 14 [+2]
INT 16 [+3]
WIS 10 [0]
CHA 8 [-1]
Weapon Training group 1: Light/Heavy blades [Use Kukri or Scimitar]
Weapon Training 2: Natural group
Weapon Training 3: Defensive weapon training
Weapon Training 4: Armed Bravery or Combat Maneuver Defense
Armor Training 1: STANDARD reduce ACP & Increase armor dex
Armor Training 2: Armor Specialization - Agile Breastplate
Armor Training 3: Armed Confidence
Armor Training 4: ???
My original thought process was to move to either a full on Natural attacker or Multiattacker.
Fight with Combat Expertise always on, only rarely not use it off.
Use only one drawn weapon such as the Kukri/Scimitar and still full attack with the Claw and Bite.
Stack bleeds and a secondary effect from the crit.
Apply Cruel/Bane/Keen to Kukri/Scimitar, and Keen etc to an Amulet of mighty fists.
Make it somehow possible I use my bite last in my attack sequence, because after I damage with it I initiate Hamatula strike to start a grapple.
Following the next turn, spend a move action with Greater Grapple to maintain it to deal damage with it. Then follow up with Death Roll because it has been triggered and throw a foe prone as a free action.
Use standard action to attack.
-----
After typing all that out though, I'm kinda wondering if it'll even be feasible.
I thought about Vicious stomp to AoO the opponent I made prone, but other than that it I doubt the strategy of trying to go through all that work to make a target prone.
A better reason or tactic to employ while I do it? Some way to deal extra damage? Make an opponent waste turns trying to stand up?
It looks fun on paper, but doubts clouding my mind and my gut are telling me I most likely will have a hard time trying to obtain an amulet of mighty fists and other appropriate gear to make the notion of grappling/natural attacks in this build work.
Especially since no one in this group crafts, and no one enchants.
Am I over thinking this?
Does no play a simple old school dwarven fighter ax and shield style any more? Every time I see one of these help me build a fighter things it's always so full of crazy stuff..lol.. suppose I'm just old.