So maybe I have gone off my rocker, always a possibility, but I "know" I have read that mounted lances get 1.5 str and power attack bonuses. Can't find a citation for the life of me though.
First, the "jousting" lance is just one form of lance and probably not the lance most commonly used in battle.
Here is an image of a lance being used two-handed
Wiki discussing lance use, including mentioning the Roman contus (kontos), a 3-4meter long thrusting spear (lance) that was used in two hands.
Second, according to this FAQ the lance gets +50% power attack damage while being used 1handed.
However, according to this FAQ when using a two-handed weapon in one hand you use one-handed strength and power attack modifiers.
While some Paizo staff have agreed that there is an apparent contradiction here they have yet to fix it.
So as currently written we have:
2handed lances = 1.5x STR and +50% Power Attack
AND
1handed lances = 1x STR and no bonus to Power Attack (If you believe the FAQs are in conflict and that the general FAQ should be applied as it makes more sense.)
OR
1handed lances = 1x STR and +50% Power Attack (If you believe that the Lance specific FAQ trumps more general 2handed in 1hand FAQ even though it creates a weird dichotomy of 1x STR and +50% Power Attack.)
Note: there is NO FAQ that allows you to get 1.5x STR while using a Lance in one hand.
Backpack,
There is no rule that allows you to deal 1.5x Str damage with a lance while it is in one hand. The FAQ that allows you to deal 2handed damage with Power Attacks does not extend to Strength.
@ Gauss: The 2nd interpretation is correct, mostly as you've explained.
It seems weird, but with specific trumps general, and the factor that the lance is a special snowflake weapon, with no variants that offer further clarification, I don't see why that's not the case.
I heard a good argument once that the mounts strength should be added to the lance damage.
I have always done it with str and a half but now that you mention it I can't remember reading that anywhere.
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I heard a good argument once that the mounts strength should be added to the lance damage.
Level 8 Order of the Sword does exactly that.
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We have a couple conflicts with it.
1. The FAQ allowing power attack "Specifically" states that it does +50% power attack damage, but was "specifically" asking about PA.
2. The other FAQ is that "generally" two handed weapons, when not wielded two-handed, do not get the bonus.
3. Lances, when mounted, can be wielded in one hand.
So why would Lances get PA when other weapons do not? I would state that it is because mounted lances are treated still as a two-handed weapon. That is the only way that all three of these pieces of information fit together. Otherwise, we must surmise that the faq is wrong and that they conflict.
The problem is that the question gives the mounted lance as an example of a 2-handed weapon wielded in one hand rather than specifically asking about that weapon. The simplest way to reconcile the contradictory FAQ answers would be to assume that the simple "Yes" given in answer to this question refers only to the lance and not to the more general case.
However, I think most of us would prefer to see this FAQ revisited, since an answer that unclear is actually worse than no answer at all.
Otherwise, we must surmise that the faq is wrong and that they conflict.
Over the years a couple of Devs have agreed that there is an apparent conflict and that the two FAQs need to be revisited. Paizo has yet to do that.
Welcome to mounted combat in Pathfinder...where answers are slow to come, if ever. :)
Is there a 3.5 ruling on it? That is my default when PF ones don't work out.
Is there a 3.5 ruling on it? That is my default when PF ones don't work out.
Two-Handed
Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon effectively. Apply 1-1/2 times the Strength bonus on damage rolls for melee attacks with such a weapon. If you’re allowed to wield a two-handed weapon in one hand, such as when riding and using a lance, that weapon is considered one-handed for the purpose of the Strength bonus on damage rolls while you’re using it in one hand.
So, while 3.5 dealt with the strength issue to my knowledge it didn't deal with the Power Attack issue that these FAQs created.
Edit: I did some searching and found the 3.5 FAQ
You can get a host of benefits from wielding a two-handed weapon, such as 1–1/2 times your Strength bonus on damage (and twice your damage bonus from the Power Attack feat) and a +4 bonus on your opposed attack roll if someone tries to disarm you. So when is a weapon “two-handed?” For example, a lance is a two-handed weapon, right? But you can wield it in one hand when you’re mounted. Since the weapons table shows that a lance is a two handed weapon, I get all the two-handed benefits no matter how I wield the lance, right?
Wrong. Table 7–5 in the PH lists weapons as light, one-handed, or two-handed strictly as a matter of convenience. These size categories are always relative to the wielder’s size, as explained in some detail in the section on weapon size on page 113 in the PH (also see next question).
When the combat rules speak of “two-handed” weapons, they’re referring to how the weapon is being used. A Medium character using a Medium longsword in two hands is using a “two-handed” weapon. The same character using a Medium lance in one hand while mounted is using a one-handed weapon. Light weapons are an exception. If you wield a light weapon in two hands you get no advantage on damage (see page 113 in the PH). Likewise, you always take a –4 penalty on your opposed roll when you’re wielding a light weapon in a disarm attempt (when someone tries to disarm you or you try to disarm someone) regardless of whether you wield it one- or two-handed.
So based on this back in 3.5 it was not the initial category of the weapon (Lance) in question but how it is used that mattered for ALL effects related to handedness, that would include power attack.
Ie: In 3.5 a Lance used 2handed was treated as 2handed for all purposes while a Lance used 1handed was treated as 1handed for all purposes.Frankly, this seems to be what the more recent Paizo FAQ was trying to do. It was the older Paizo FAQ that would be contradicting this general principle.
isn't there a rule were specific trumps generic? thus the specific lance faq would beat the generic 2h weapon in one hand faq
The 'specific lance FAQ' is actually not specific to lances, it just used the lance as an example. Also, it does not deal with strength bonuses.
It contradicts the 'general' FAQ that was released at a later date.
However, since the earlier FAQ mentions the Lance as an example people like to use it as the 'specific trumps general' case in order to get extra Power Attack damage despite the, later, more common sense FAQ.
Frankly, Paizo should just rescind the earlier FAQ as abrogated by the newer FAQ. Even Paizo Devs have stated there is an apparent contradiction here.
As above:"Technically, the knight is using her entire body. Held in the hand and tucked under the arm against the body." A melee weapon is held in the hand or with 2 hands. We can argue how weapons are used and how the whole body goes into the swing.
This weapon is the exception. It is classified as a "2 handed weapon" while mounted Knights are able to use it with 1 hand/body.
Really not sure what your point here is.
The answer, assuming you go by the more permissive FAQ, is clear.
A lance used in 1 hand gets x1.5 Power Attack damage but only x1 Strength damage.
If you use the more restrictive FAQ and are not using the more permissive FAQ then the answer is that a lance used in 1 hand gets x1 Power Attack and x1 Strength damage.
generally, it seems the 'give x1.5' is there to preserve the well known image of a jouster.
Because if they didn't do that, then pretty much no one would use the shielded style, since that would just be a 1 weapon/1 handed style, which is generally weak for everyone other than swashbucklers (..who get bonuses to fight like a 2 hander). Eveyrone would just abandon the shield and 2 hand.
So overall- the lance gets special treatment, both with the hands and with charges, in order to encourage mounted builds that might get avoided otherwise due to charge issues. The advantage with handedness mostly comes in the ability to boost AC by using a shield.
Otherwise- they want to avoid the silly builds like the guy taking the titan mauler barbarian levels so they can use 2 greatswords at the same time.
So the logic behind ALL of this is a slight amount of balance that is largely overshadowed by a desire for aesthetics.