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Can I please get some feedback and input on my new homebrew, the Avatar?
The Avatar Class
Its designed to be a frontline combatant, capable of transforming into an Elemental known as his Avatar Form and using Wraths to further improve his combat repertoires.
They're pretty much designed as a divine-oriented elemental barbarian and expected to function just as well as one would expect, but with some added versatility.
At 1st level, it looks like his only class feature is the ability to use a cleric domain's 1st level power. That's it. Spells should not be listed where it currently is because there is no spell casting until 4th level. The hit die should be d10. The elemental shape shifting looks pretty cool. Overall, it's very weak at 1st level.
Good to know, thanks. I'll look into your input and try to adjust things and see how it goes.
Did I miss something at 1st level?
No, you were right. The Avatar had barely any features at 1st level, so I readjusted and moved his class features around.
I like the general idea behind the class, but I think the execution needs a lot of macro level work. The overall problem is that if I want to play a martial with a self buff that turns them into an elemental combatant, I'd rather play a bloodrager with the elemental bloodline. The central class feature needs to do something more interesting than giving you an at-will domain power and then elemental body. My suggestions are:
1) Totally divorce the class from cleric domains. Cleric domains are designed for a totally different class and are largely weak. All they do is give the cleric something to do at low levels when they don't want to cast spells. In addition, the domain power blasts are standard actions, which clashes with the class being a martial.
2) Create a new primary power for being in avatar form. Maybe they get an ability score bonus? Maybe they get a blast that can be full-attacked like the vigilante warlock? Whatever it is, it should tie into being a martial. There's no point in being a martial if their primary class feature can't utilize the perks of being a martial.
3) Re-evaluate the rest of the class features and find ways to flesh out the class. If you focus on having a solid central class feature or two, then filling the gaps should be much easier. But as is, one "meh" class feature and a bunch of talents isn't that interesting.
Why not give the ability to at-will domain strike, or always be able to replace attacks with domain strikes, or perhaps add another stat modifier to your domain strike damage?
Okay, thanks for the input. I suppose you guys are right that this isn't my best idea and needs more time to be polished.
I'll be back once I have a good idea how to fix this thing.
@Cryad,
1) The reason I chose cleric domains for this was multifaceted.
I wanted to tie some divine aspect to the Avatar for aesthetics. I also wanted the bonus spells and the energy resistances for mechanics.
The 1st level domain powers isn't that impressive, true. It simply wasn't something I needed for the class and merely a small perk.
2) As for the Avatar Form, there already are new powers and stat boosts once they gain access to the Elemental Body spells. Specifically, in addition to stat boosts, they gain a size bonus, elemental immunities, elemental abilities like burn, vortex, whirlwind, etc.
3) Yes, you're right. I should definitely flesh out the Avatar Form and the Wraths some more. I tried to make it similar to the Barb's Rage and Rage Powers, which I suppose is very unoriginal. The Class Features at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th, I am quite happy with already, at least until a better idea comes up.
It is is good idea, you just need to develop it.
Cyrad wrote: Maybe they get a blast that can be full-attacked like the vigilante warlock? I addressed that in the Avatar Form class feature.
"While in Avatar Form, an Avatar may use his 1st level domain powers at-will as an attack rather than as a standard action. Furthermore, he is not restricted to how many times he may use his domain powers per day."
Its not powerful, but its something of a 'backup ranged weapon'
It becomes a bit more potent with Wraths that improve their range, damage and ability to deal splash damage, but will never be as powerful as when an Avatar performs a full attack with elemental damage and a small bonus to their attack & damage rolls after casting a domain spell.
As Ciaran Barnes said, the premise behind the class is not a bad idea. It just needs a lot of work to further develop it.
Why is the domain blast just a minor perk? That's literally the only thing avatar form does until 3rd level. Avatar form is the main class feature. It needs to do something interesting and fun that sets it apart from other classes. It needs to do something more than just give you elemental body and a blast you claim isn't the main perk of the feature. You can play any other number of classes to do that -- and do it better. I want to see something really cool and intriguing out of it.
Okay, done with it. Nothing special, just gave the Avatar some bonus feats to give it more available options at 1st level.
Ever seen a Fighter critique thread?
One of the main points on it is as follows: Bonus feats are not a class feature.
I'd recommend you spend your 1st level ability adjusting and boosting your 1st level powers more. Instead of doing a get-a-cleric-domain thing, why not a converted version? Warpriest uses Blessings that all share the names of Cleric domains. Bloodrager has Bloodlines that are derived from Sorcerer Bloodlines. At this stage, you might as well just give yourself the resistances, straight up, as a class feature. If you distance yourself a bit from Cleric domains, maybe you can leave room to squeeze in Kineticist elements such as Wood, Void, or Aether. Metal is also an option, if you want to complete your wu xing. Of course, you'd need to adjust your Elemental Body options. And with 8 possible elements, you'd need to have to choose which ones to not take.
Also, perhaps you minimize specialized element wraths, and instead have the element-clasm wrath and element strike wrath be general wraths? Perhaps you also have some sort of mixed wrath - one that lets you get some extra fire damage while you are in the earth or air form (but not water form). Or maybe just have some of the flat bonus damage wraths be automatic class features, while limiting wraths to active or game-changing abilities, instead of passive buffs. Element-specific wraths encourage the player to focus much more on a single elemental form, when it might be more interesting to be versatile and have multiple options. If, say, you got all your specialized elemental breath wraths instead of only one element's breath wrath, that would encourage the player to switch more for the situation.
Elemental Breath bears a large resemblance to Channel Negative, except that it seems much weaker. Perhaps you either let it replace an attack, give it more uses per avatar form, and/or give it more damage? In its current form, it looks like a 1/2 damage Cone of Cold (without applying special breath weapon wraths). And Cone of Cold is a weak spell for its level.
Overall, I'm still interested in your concept and seeing where it goes. Keep up the good work.
Dang. That's a LOT of good points. Very appreciated, I'll keep working on the concept, but you're right. Tying the domains limited the scope with which I can improve the Avatar. I'll need to scrap these domains and do a total rework.
The Green Traveller wrote: Can I please get some feedback and input on my new homebrew, the Avatar? class description wrote: Known throughout the land as protectors and champions of the natural world made manifest through flesh, Avatars are powerful beings whose close connections to the spirits of nature grant them control over the four primary elements, as well as incredible deific strength that comes only from offering their own bodies as a living vessel to these great elemental spirits. I hesitate to speak up, but if you're redesigning... Could you pick a new class name? The Vessel, perhaps? The Elemental Avatar?
The thing is, I saw "Avatar" and thought "incredible deific strength that comes only from offering their own bodies as a living vessel" to their god. Then I saw "living vessel to these great elemental spirits" and realized that your idea of "deific strength" and mine was very different. We don't have to agree on a concept, certainly. But others might be confused & then disappointed, as well.
I recognize that there are far too many deities for a genuine Avatar class to identify, but a realistic one could develop extraplanar characteristics similar to the powerful servants of the gods. (There's only nine.) So would you save the name, please?
@ Bitter Lily
I was planning on keeping the name, but since I'm in the process of overhauling the entire class, I'll definitely revise the fluff text as well.
Good to have some free Avatar stuff out there. ;)
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The Avatar is actually not based off of 'Avatar the animated series'
Instead, they're based off the Ember, Storm and Earth Spirits from DoTA. Particularly, the entire premise that they're entities whose powers come from becoming living vessels to the elemental spirits.
The only difference herein is that the spirit and the host can coexist without the spirit destroying the main hosts' soul.
The Incarnate Archetype however, is much closer to that concept, as the elemental spirit and the soul are almost one and the same, preventing the Avatar from adopting other elements, but making his primary element much, much stronger.
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Overhauled the Class, updated with new content.
I'll need additional feedbacks and suggestions please!
First off, well done on the filling out the concept. I knew you had more ideas.
BONUS LANGUAGES
This is just a weird thought I had, but what if the language changed, depending on which element he was channeling? Or maybe a requirement that he can't channel an element until he can speak the language? Your way is much simpler. I'm just spitballing.
ELEMENTAL EMBODIMENT
Is there some length of time to choose a new element, such as spending 15 minutes contemplating the natural forces or an hour performing a ritual? Currently, it seem like he wakes up and has a new one.
NATURE'S BOON
There is some redundant info at the beginning. You say that he picks a new spirit (singular) each day, but just above that you say that at higher levels he can pick more than one at a time. Redundancy has a time and place in the rules, but small changes can create contradictions if you aren't careful.
I like what you've done here so far. Obviously I could suggest variant sets of skills, but so could anyone who reads this. For example, I might swap out fire' Diplomacy with Perform. Or, I might extend the bonus to all Charisma-based ability and/or skill checks. Similarly, I like light as a free cantrip, but spark would also be thematically appropriate. So if I understand correctly, these bonuses are active 24 hours a day, depending on the element chosen. At 5th, two elements are active, 24 hours a day, etc. Is that right?
AVATAR FORM
The duration is probably not a big deal, but there are two other ways to go about it. You've got barbarian style rounds/day split up as needed, and you have hunter style minutes/day split up as needed in one-minute increments. One of those would be simpler and still do the job. Yours has two scaling numbers: duration and uses/day. The numbers start small, then ramp up very quickly. At levels, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 the total durations are 1, 2, 6, 8, 15, 18, 28 and on and on. If you retain this method, then what if you made is so that channeling more than one element at once consumed a proportionate number of minutes? For example, at 5th level I channel fire or air for 15 minutes total, or I can channel both for 7? Or a combination of such, chosen minute by minute.
Do the elemental body spells still govern the shapechanging? This was stated in your original draft but I don't see it an here any more. Using these spells would simplify things a lot. If so, these spells already have ability score bonuses built into them. Would the avatar get both?
I wanted to point out the ability scores chosen in these two class features.
Fire: Cha skills and Str bonus
Air: Dex skills and Dex bonus
Earth: Wis skills and Con bonus
Water: Int skills and Wis bonus
Air has Dex doubled up. If you wanted to switch things up, the magical element of air has the mind associated with it, so you could make that the ability score boost or more the Int skills to it. Not a big deal though.
Minor nitpick: There aren't currently "divine" bonuses under that name. These types of bonuses are often represented as Sacred or Profane. Some other possible bonus typings are Inherent (Same as Wish), Size (Same as polymorphs/size changes), and Enhancement (Magic items).
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Ciaran Barnes wrote: First off, well done on the filling out the concept. I knew you had more ideas.
BONUS LANGUAGES
This is just a weird thought I had, but what if the language changed, depending on which element he was channeling? Or maybe a requirement that he can't channel an element until he can speak the language? Your way is much simpler. I'm just spitballing.
ELEMENTAL EMBODIMENT
Is there some length of time to choose a new element, such as spending 15 minutes contemplating the natural forces or an hour performing a ritual? Currently, it seem like he wakes up and has a new one.
NATURE'S BOON
There is some redundant info at the beginning. You say that he picks a new spirit (singular) each day, but just above that you say that at higher levels he can pick more than one at a time. Redundancy has a time and place in the rules, but small changes can create contradictions if you aren't careful.
I like what you've done here so far. Obviously I could suggest variant sets of skills, but so could anyone who reads this. For example, I might swap out fire' Diplomacy with Perform. Or, I might extend the bonus to all Charisma-based ability and/or skill checks. Similarly, I like light as a free cantrip, but spark would also be thematically appropriate. So if I understand correctly, these bonuses are active 24 hours a day, depending on the element chosen. At 5th, two elements are active, 24 hours a day, etc. Is that right?
AVATAR FORM
The duration is probably not a big deal, but there are two other ways to go about it. You've got barbarian style rounds/day split up as needed, and you have hunter style minutes/day split up as needed in one-minute increments. One of those would be simpler and still do the job. Yours has two scaling numbers: duration and uses/day. The numbers start small, then ramp up very quickly. At levels, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 the total durations are 1, 2, 6, 8, 15, 18, 28 and on and on. If you retain this method, then what if you made is so that channeling more than one element at once consumed a...
For bonus languages, the first thing an Avatar might need to commune with an elemental is to speak its language, hence why the bonus language has no restrictions. (Though this sort of logic can be safely ignored in the confines of this game. Too many arbitrary rules as is...)
For elemental embodiment, thanks for pointing that out. Revised and added.
For nature's boon, yes variant skills can be done, but that is up to you and the DM. The reason why I chose Light instead because Spark has a lot less utility going for it. And yes, the more spirits an Avatar can attune, the more abilities he gets indefinitely until he attunes to a new set of spirits. This isn't a big deal with the Nature's Boons because it only offers skills and cantrips and a few feats that are thematic but very situational.
As for avatar form, I'm having trouble rewording it because the Elemental Body spell only reaches up to 'Huge Elemental', but tell me what you think of the new revised wording. As for the duration, this is actually slightly based off of the Druid's wild shape ability which is a 1-hour ability with an addition use per day. Mine is a bit more scaled down to several minutes with an additional use per day.
You're right about the Air Boons stacking with the Avatar Form's stat bonuses. This is designed as intended. As you may notice from the Air Avatar's Wrath Powers, he is the least offensive-based avatar and more focused on stealth and overall damage evasion.
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