My question is two-fold.
Can someone explain where it says that Simulacrum can't be healed by anything but the process listed at the end of the spell? I read that as giving wizards, who were originally the only ones that could cast the spell, a way of healing the Simulacrum since they don't have access to cure spells.
My second question is, since an Alchemical Simulacrum is not an illusion but is specifically a living creature, even if normal Simulacrum could not heal, what is stopping a living creature that is specifically not a supernatural thing but is actually a living from being healed with Cure spells?
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you can heal the simulacea in that lab, but it's not the only way. once created, by whatever means, it's a creature and can be healed as such.
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Normal Alchemical Simulacrum still break down like the spell Lesser Simulacrum, correct? That's how I figured it was, but since the new creatures were specified to be creatures not supernatural effects I didn't know if that factored into it.
Healing is specifically spelled out in the spell, allowing no other method.
That said, our group uses other materials for the base structure with differing effects. A metal Sim heals a bit when exposed to fire over a period of time, like a HP per month, Porcelain a bit faster, certain Cold spells aid an ice/snow base, etc., but all require Craft Wondrous Item and can only do a bit each day (1/100 HP minimum), though all bets are off with Wishes.
We also start Sim spells at level 3 (to 9) and have been running them since about 1980. Our current GM 'requires' learning each earlier version of every spell (all have lesser and greater versions), in effect, before moving on up the tree (DC penaltied for missing spells). There are a number of other spells for additional work (flight, etc.).
The above 'metals' I made to help out in the family foundry and are level 3 NPC Experts (the level 4 version of our spells), keyed to my Wizard's brother. Normal wear and tear 'heal' just by exposure to the forges, though he is a W1 and has his own repair lab for real damage. RAW is not as flexible, but YMMV.
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My question was that since the spell says it "can" be healed that may, not that it "must" be healed that way, that since the Alchemical vesion is a living thing and specifically not a supernatural (and thus not a magical) effect, what is stopping it from being healed in any other way.
For instance, Constructs say that they "cannot" heal damage on their own, but this spell does not specify that, it merely specifies a possible method of repairing them, with no text saying that that is the only way to heal it.
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My two cents:
For regular simulacrums, strict RAW does not exclude other healing because they left out the word "only," but IMO RAI does exclude it. And even RAW, the simulacrum is not a creature, being partially illusory and partially real, which means it's not a legal target for CLW and most other healing magic.
Alchemical simulacrums are creatures, so that last bit doesn't apply. I'm not sure what that does to the RAI on healing outside the lab. (Strict RAW things like CLW clearly work.)
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No one really understands how simulacrum works, let alone alchemical simulacrum.
This spell flat-out 100% is up to how your GM wants to run it, and the devs have pretty much come out and said they won't try and explain how simulacrum works *because* they want it to be up to the GM.
In our games, yes, since it's biological rather than an illusion, we allow positive energy to heal it. Other tables will run it differently.
The forums really can't help you, and if you've never looked up a simulacrum thread before, you may not understand the rules clusterbomb you just accidentally stepped into.
It's bad. Like, really, really bad.
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The spell says they can be healed that way. Not that they must.
Also, they're not constructs. You don't get the construct template in addition to all of the other good stuff
Also, the devs have said theyre creatures. They eat, sleep, etc. Also they heal like normal creatures. No cheap constructs.
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I knew it was kind of a clusterbomb, but I was just seeing if I missed anything in my searches. Thanks for the suggestions.
I'm playing an Alchemist in Way of the Wicked and figured Greater Alchemical Simulacrum would be a good thing to pick up for later in the game. I've already set some limits with my GM so far. No Efreeti (or other genies that can grant wishes), no Solars, no Great Old Ones, and we're still looking at other creatures that have some silly abilities.
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I forget which adventure had it but there was a sim with vampiric touch but didn't say it couldn't gain hp from it
Another benefits from False Life
** it was Rise of the Runelords
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Illusory copy breaks down when you add the Shadow descriptor, which makes it partially real. Maybe mostly real. Maybe functionally like a creature except for the half HD/abilities, and the fact that once it's killed (presumably at negative Con HP, not zero HP) the shadow magic goes away and it reverts to snow.
Simulacrum creates an illusory duplicate of any creature. The duplicate creature is partially real and formed from ice or snow. It appears to be the same as the original, but it has only half of the real creature's levels or HD (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD). You can't create a simulacrum of a creature whose HD or levels exceed twice your caster level. You must make a Disguise check when you cast the spell to determine how good the likeness is. A creature familiar with the original might detect the ruse with a successful Perception check (opposed by the caster's Disguise check) or a DC 20 Sense Motive check.
At all times, the simulacrum remains under your absolute command. No special telepathic link exists, so command must be exercised in some other manner. A simulacrum has no ability to become more powerful. It cannot increase its level or abilities. If reduced to 0 hit points or otherwise destroyed, it reverts to snow and melts instantly into nothingness. A complex process requiring at least 24 hours, 100 gp per hit point, and a fully equipped magical laboratory can repair damage to a simulacrum.
So...
- an illusory duplicate, but partially real (specifically ice, snow, and shadow magic)
- as the original, but half levels or HD (and attendant elements) (also: disguise check to look like the original)
- at 0 hp (or "otherwise destroyed" (?)) it reverts to snow and melts into nothingness
- there is a process that allows you to repair it
There are lots of reasons this is unclear.
Each of these elements cause confusion, conflict, and disagreement in their interpretation. Each remain a point of contention.
To me:
- I think this makes it a spell effect replicating a creature
- I think this just means roll the clock back half its levels, if possible, or just weaken it, if not
- This seems like it's vaguely like a construct, which is why many interpret it that way - but I view it as a spell-effect exactly like shadow conjurations, summons (), and unseen servants
- This reads as if it's supposed to imply the only way to heal it is this method... but that conflicts with lines one and two, as well as it not actually saying that
... but that's just my view. There are several legitimate interpretations, and that's fine. I'd like clarification on the intent, but I find many of the FAQs disagree not only with my philosophy, but my enjoyment of the game, if applied. So we've kind of started ignoring the FAQ rules in favor of just playing for fun. I really like the PF rules, but they're slowly falling out of favor with me with such decisions. Still, it's worth noting that there are a lot of interesting possibilities, and different people's interpretations are valid for their individual games.