Question regarding the Monk of the Empty Hand Archetype, and the (what I find as) peculiar wording.
Reprinted proficiency section for convenience (Hope that's Ok to do on these boards?)
Weapon and Armor Proficiency:Monks of the empty hand are proficient with the shuriken only. A monk of the empty hand treats normal weapons as improvised weapons with the following equivalencies (substituting all of their statistics for the listed weapon): a light weapon functions as a light hammer, a one-handed weapon functions as a club, and a Two-handed weapon functions as a quarterstaff.
This replaces the normal monk weapon proficiencies.
My question is: "Does the Empty-Hand still take the -4 penalty for wielding any improvised weapon?"
Actually does he take a -4 penalty for wielding EVERYTHING? Except shuriken and fists I guess.
The entry states:
-treats normal weapons as improvised weapons
-Empty hand are proficient with the shuriken only
-No actual mention of other Proficiencies, Such as improvised weapons.
Is this merely an oversight and the intention should be clear? Or is the Empty-hand intentionally like this for some reason?
I imagine the intention is exactly what's there-- you'd have to take Catch Off-Guard in order to avoid the -4 on weapon attack rolls. The idea is that a monk of the empty hand isn't used to using weapons that aren't his own fists, and to him a sword is no more useful than a table leg.
The idea is that a monk of the empty hand isn't used to using weapons that aren't his own fists
It dawns on me that the Archtype name is a horrible description because the name does imply a "Fist only" monk, but the class description is actually stating the opposite:
"eschews normal weapons in favor of whatever is lying around—rocks, chair legs, flagons of ale, even a simple quill pen all become deadly weapons in the hands of such a monk."And all of it's later abilities specifically improve Improvised Weapons.
Follow up question:
Would taking Weapon Specific feats or abilities apply to weapons, that the Empty-Hand is 'improvisingly' using?
The only example I can think off the top of my head would be Starry Grace for bonuses with starknifes. Would the monk gain the benefit since he is still wielding one? Or not so because it's an improvised weapon (or light hammer)?
I personally like the name of the archetype. I get what you're saying, but Monk of the Empty Hand sounds way cooler than Monk of Whatever's At Hand. (Also, think of it this way: a Monk of the Empty Hand starts combat with hands empty, then fills them as he goes depending on what's lying around. Other characters often begin combat with weapons drawn.)
I would say that your example of Starry Grace wouldn't apply, because the monk isn't wielding a starknife as a starknife-- he's wielding it as an improvised weapon, meaning he's hitting with whatever part of it happens to be sticking out at the time. Even wielding an actual light hammer and taking Weapon Focus (light hammer) wouldn't apply, because he's wielding an improvised weapon and using the stats of a light hammer (which happen to be the same as the actual weapon).
He needs to take things like Weapon Focus with the weapons that he improvisingly uses things as---light hammer, club, quarterstaff. Starry Grace won't help him at all.
I don't believe Weapon Focus (light hammer) helps a Monk of the Empty Hand. Even if it does, he'd have to get Weapon Proficiency (light hammer) first.
Alright. Clear on the Weapon Specific stuff.
Not so clear on Proficiencies still, no verdict or formal post to cover this I assume?
I personally like the name of the archetype. I get what you're saying, but Monk of the Empty Hand sounds way cooler than Monk of Whatever's At Hand.
See, now I just want to make a Emtpy-Hand Monk just so I can call him that.
Pal: Excuse me good Monk, what order are you from?
Mnk: The Order of: "Eeh, Whatever's around." *Shrugging*
Pal: Wha-? An order called the "Eeh, Whatever's around"!?
Mnk: No no, when pronouncing the "Eeh" one must do the appropriate shoulder shrug as well. Upward and slightly to the back. Not to be confused with the Order of "Whateva's layin' abou'". Their shoulder shrug is entirely different.
I personally like the name of the archetype. I get what you're saying, but Monk of the Empty Hand sounds way cooler than Monk of Whatever's At Hand.See, now I just want to make a Emtpy-Hand Monk just so I can call him that.
** spoiler omitted **
[montypython] [/montypython]