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So the new worldscape comics featuring pulp heroes with the iconic pathfinder characters has inspired me to try some theorycraft character building. The challenge is to build Red Sonja as an 8th level character in Pathfinder, 3.5, and 5th edition. 28 point buy for 3.5 and 32,000 gold and 20 point buy for Pathfinder. Standard point buy and a few magic items for 5E. The main thing is to have a viable ac with no armor (maybe haramaki in Pathfinder). I have my own ideas. I want to hear yours.
Unearthed Arcana in 3.5 has unarmed defense bonus rules that should handle her AC nicely.
Ring of Deflection/Amulet of Natural Armor/Bracers of Armor?
I don't know the character but maybe if you have a Brawler or Monk Dip and then pick up Crane Style and Combat Expertise.*
*Yes, I just recommended Combat Expertise. You see I have no problem with this feat, because unlike Power Attack it isn't best used on every attack. (Unless there's High AC target, but that's a story for another time) You can toggle Combat Expertise when the situation calls for it. Most notably when you are confident in your attack bonus, which I think builds could easily be, or if you need to not get hit, which could happen. Stacks with Fighting Defensively if you really want to push it, and Crane Style makes it more viable.
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Well, there are a few ways to make a character with a viable AC in pathfinder without armor.
1) Monk: So Red Sonja seems much more 'Barbarian-ey' than 'monk' to me.
2) Arshea celestial obedience. So you get an armor bonus to AC equal to your Charisma bonus if you get the second level of Arshea's Celestial obedience. Unofortunatly, that requires you to be level 12, so it is out of reach for our level 8 pathfinder build.
3) Lore or Nature Oracle can get their charisma as a dodge bonus to AC. Now in the books (according to wiki, I haven't actually read them) Sonja was given her powers by Scáthach the god of revenge, so it KINDA works, but I doubt the godess of revenge would grant lore/nature powers.
4) Another option is a swashbuckler, and use parry-riposte instead of just relying on AC, but then again, she doesn't seem super riposteful
5) There are plenty of builds that use spells, but she seems to be much more of a warrior than spellcaster.
So, for the sake of this build, we are going to have to make some sacrifices.
EDIT: I modded one of my existing builds (who just so happened to also be at level 8, lucky-lucky) so some of my numbers may be off, but I think it generally gets the point across.
Stats: Str:10, Dex:22 (2 from belt, 2 from level up), Con:14, Int:10, Wis:10, Chr:18 (2 from headband)
Red Sonja
Female Human Swashbuckler 5/ Barbarian (Urban Barbarian)3
CN Medium Humanoid (Human, dual-talented)
Init+5 Senses Low Light, Perception +11
DEFENSE
AC25 (27 when raging), touch 17(19 while raging), flat-footed 17 (+4 Armor +6/8 Dex, +2 shield, +1 deflection, +1 dodge, +1 natural armor)
HP 84 (5d10+23+3d12+6)
Fort+7, Ref+13/15, Will+4
OFFENSE
Speed30
Melee+1 Furious Longsword +16/+11(1d8+15) (crit: 17-20, 2d8+26) OR Javalin +14 (1d6+5)
RAGING STATISTICS
+1 Furious Longsword +20/+15 (1d8+19) (Crit: 17-20, 2d8+34) OR Javalin +15 (1d6+5)
Space[b]5 ft.,[b]Reach5 ft.
Special Attacks Rage (10 rnds/day, adds +4 to Dexterity.)
Spell-Like Abilities
Class Abilities Swashbuckler Finesse, Swashbuckler deeds (all up to level 5), Charmed Life 3/day, Nimble+1, Weapon Training, 4 Panache,
Base Atk+8 CMB +8 (+15 vs. weapon manuvers);CMD23
Feats Weapon Focus (Longsword), Slashing Grace, Combat reflexes, Weapon specialization(longsword), Toughness
Skills Acrobatics+12, Perception+11, Use Magic Device(+16)
Climb +7, Swim +7
TraitsDangerously Curious, Mule of Society
LanguagesCommon, Hallit
Gear of note+1 Mithral Buckler, Potion of fly, Handy haversack, Cloak of resistance +2, +1 Furious longsword, Belt of Dexterity+2, Headband of charisma +2, wand of Mage Armor(50 charges), wand of Cure Light Wounds (50 charges), Potion of Bless Weaponx2, Generic adventuring stuff (antiplague, antitoxin, holy water, etc. Just budgeted 500 GP for it.), Ring of Deflection +1, Amulet of natural armor +1
(In case it's not obvious, she uses UMD to UMD some mage armor on for an extra bit of protection.)
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Well, there are a few ways to make a character with a viable AC in pathfinder without armor.
1) Monk: So Red Sonja seems much more 'Barbarian-ey' than 'monk' to me.
2) Arshea celestial obedience. So you get an armor bonus to AC equal to your Charisma bonus if you get the second level of Arshea's Celestial obedience. Unofortunatly, that requires you to be level 12, so it is out of reach for our level 8 pathfinder build.
3) Lore or Nature Oracle can get their charisma as a dodge bonus to AC. Now in the books (according to wiki, I haven't actually read them) Sonja was given her powers by Scáthach the god of revenge, so it KINDA works, but I doubt the godess of revenge would grant lore/nature powers.
4) Another option is a swashbuckler, and use parry-riposte instead of just relying on AC, but then again, she doesn't seem super riposteful
5) There are plenty of builds that use spells, but she seems to be much more of a warrior than spellcaster.
So, for the sake of this build, we are going to have to make some sacrifices.
EDIT: I modded one of my existing builds (who just so happened to also be at level 8, lucky-lucky) so some of my numbers may be off, but I think it generally gets the point across.
Stats: Str:10, Dex:22 (2 from belt, 2 from level up), Con:14, Int:10, Wis:10, Chr:18 (2 from headband)
Red Sonja
Female Human Swashbuckler 5/ Barbarian (Urban Barbarian)3
CN Medium Humanoid (Human, dual-talented)
Init+5 Senses Low Light, Perception +11
DEFENSE
AC25 (27 when raging), touch 17(19 while raging), flat-footed 17 (+4 Armor +6/8 Dex, +2 shield, +1 deflection, +1 dodge, +1 natural armor)
HP 84 (5d10+23+3d12+6)
Fort+7, Ref+13/15, Will+4
OFFENSE
Speed30
Melee+1 Furious Longsword +16/+11(1d8+15) (crit: 17-20, 2d8+26) OR Javalin +14 (1d6+5)
RAGING STATISTICS
+1 Furious Longsword +20/+15 (1d8+19) (Crit: 17-20, 2d8+34) OR Javalin +15 (1d6+5)
Space[b]5 ft.,[b]Reach5 ft.[/b][/b]...
That is similar to my build except I had urban bloodrager (destined) 4 instead of barbarian 3 and dancing dervish swashbuckler 4 using a scimitar and fate's favored to get the most out of the destined bloodline luck bonuses.
So the new worldscape comics featuring pulp heroes with the iconic pathfinder characters has inspired me to try some theorycraft character building. The challenge is to build Red Sonja as an 8th level character in Pathfinder, 3.5, and 5th edition. 28 point buy for 3.5 and 32,000 gold and 20 point buy for Pathfinder. Standard point buy and a few magic items for 5E. The main thing is to have a viable ac with no armor (maybe haramaki in Pathfinder). I have my own ideas. I want to hear yours.
Well, I sure don't have time to throw together a full build. But if you want to go with a Red Sonja build, I'mma point you towards Robert E. Howard's story, "In The Shadow of the Vulture."
Sonja is a Picaroon swashbuckler from Poland, not some loincloth-clad Hyrkanian vixen!
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Another idea I had was a sacred fist warpriest, only give her the feats for longsword prof. And weapon focus, and use crusader's flurry.
Except she most definitely is not a spellcaster of any kind. Once version of her got her fighting ability from a goddess of vengence, but nothing close to actual spellcasting.
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So the new worldscape comics featuring pulp heroes with the iconic pathfinder characters has inspired me to try some theorycraft character building. The challenge is to build Red Sonja as an 8th level character in Pathfinder, 3.5, and 5th edition. 28 point buy for 3.5 and 32,000 gold and 20 point buy for Pathfinder. Standard point buy and a few magic items for 5E. The main thing is to have a viable ac with no armor (maybe haramaki in Pathfinder). I have my own ideas. I want to hear yours.Well, I sure don't have time to throw together a full build. But if you want to go with a Red Sonja build, I'mma point you towards Robert E. Howard's story, "In The Shadow of the Vulture."
Sonja is a Picaroon swashbuckler from Poland, not some loincloth-clad Hyrkanian vixen!
Yes, that is the original version of her that inspired the one from the hyborean age, but a Polish musketeer using a rapier and flintlock doesn't exactly capture the imagination like the sword and sorcery version, especially for the fantasy genre.
The main thing is to have a viable ac with no armor
Why "no armor"?
Is a glamered armor (to make it look like a bikini) an option?
[•••] no armor is [•••] more of a challenge.
Fair enough.
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Another idea I had was a sacred fist warpriest, only give her the feats for longsword prof. And weapon focus, and use crusader's flurry.Except she most definitely is not a spellcaster of any kind. Once version of her got her fighting ability from a goddess of vengence, but nothing close to actual spellcasting.
Read my first post. To make Red Sonja in pathfinder, you are going to have to make some consessions. She's supposed to be really strong too, but in my build she only has 10 str. I know she's not normally portrayed as a spellcaster, but to make her work in pathfinder you might well have to pick-and-choose what to keep and what to throw out.
Unarmored? No spellcasting? Super strong? Worships a god of revenge?
She can have a few of these, but not all of them in the pathfinder system.
Now, another way to build her is to make her a super barbarian and just say "Screw it" to AC. Tank with hitpoints. There's an idea, and it seems like it might work.
How much time do you have? The comic itself is supposed to have Pathfinder stats for Red Sonja at around that level, complete with details of the new Sword Devil archetype of Ranger that she is built around.
In any case, I have been working on some unarmored characters of my own. I have found that the 3rd party feat Improved Unarmored Specialist (which doubles the Dex bonus to AC, on top of the +2 AC bonus granted by a prerequisite feat) is very useful for high Dex characters even in the absence of abilities like the Monk's wisdom bonus to AC. To qualify for that feat, you have to somehow give the character the Evasion class feature.
How much time do you have? The comic itself is supposed to have Pathfinder stats for Red Sonja at around that level, complete with details of the new Sword Devil archetype of Ranger that she is built around.
In any case, I have been working on some unarmored characters of my own. I have found that the 3rd party feat Improved Unarmored Specialist (which doubles the Dex bonus to AC, on top of the +2 AC bonus granted by a prerequisite feat) is very useful for high Dex characters even in the absence of abilities like the Monk's wisdom bonus to AC. To qualify for that feat, you have to somehow give the character the Evasion class feature.
Comic? Did Paizo get it's hands on licensing the character? I honestly believed that the fee would be well above what Paizo would be willing to shell out.
Comic? Did Paizo get it's hands on licensing the character? I honestly believed that the fee would be well above what Paizo would be willing to shell out.How much time do you have? The comic itself is supposed to have Pathfinder stats for Red Sonja at around that level, complete with details of the new Sword Devil archetype of Ranger that she is built around.
In any case, I have been working on some unarmored characters of my own. I have found that the 3rd party feat Improved Unarmored Specialist (which doubles the Dex bonus to AC, on top of the +2 AC bonus granted by a prerequisite feat) is very useful for high Dex characters even in the absence of abilities like the Monk's wisdom bonus to AC. To qualify for that feat, you have to somehow give the character the Evasion class feature.
Check the blogs. They have been previewing the Red Sonja character's Pathfinder stats for a couple of weeks now.
Comic? Did Paizo get it's hands on licensing the character? I honestly believed that the fee would be well above what Paizo would be willing to shell out.How much time do you have? The comic itself is supposed to have Pathfinder stats for Red Sonja at around that level, complete with details of the new Sword Devil archetype of Ranger that she is built around.
In any case, I have been working on some unarmored characters of my own. I have found that the 3rd party feat Improved Unarmored Specialist (which doubles the Dex bonus to AC, on top of the +2 AC bonus granted by a prerequisite feat) is very useful for high Dex characters even in the absence of abilities like the Monk's wisdom bonus to AC. To qualify for that feat, you have to somehow give the character the Evasion class feature.
Check the blogs. They have been previewing the Red Sonja character's Pathfinder stats for a couple of weeks now.
Just did... and it looks like they've taken the character a giant step backward for men's titillation. I cheered when Marvel got rid of that stupid chain mail bikini for some sensible adventuring clothing. It really urks me to see Paizo among all others, bring it back. Edgar Rice Burroughs never dresssed the character that way. Of course his orginal version, Sonya of Rogatine, was a flintlock and sword wielding pirate. :)
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Just did... and it looks like they've taken the character a giant step backward for men's titillation. I cheered when Marvel got rid of that stupid chain mail bikini for some sensible adventuring clothing. It really urks me to see Paizo among all others, bring it back. Edgar Rice Burroughs never dresssed the character that way. Of course his orginal version, Sonya of Rogatine, was a flintlock and sword wielding pirate. :)Comic? Did Paizo get it's hands on licensing the character? I honestly believed that the fee would be well above what Paizo would be willing to shell out.How much time do you have? The comic itself is supposed to have Pathfinder stats for Red Sonja at around that level, complete with details of the new Sword Devil archetype of Ranger that she is built around.
In any case, I have been working on some unarmored characters of my own. I have found that the 3rd party feat Improved Unarmored Specialist (which doubles the Dex bonus to AC, on top of the +2 AC bonus granted by a prerequisite feat) is very useful for high Dex characters even in the absence of abilities like the Monk's wisdom bonus to AC. To qualify for that feat, you have to somehow give the character the Evasion class feature.
Check the blogs. They have been previewing the Red Sonja character's Pathfinder stats for a couple of weeks now.
Just to point out, Paizo weren't the ones that brought back the chainmail bikini for Red.
They did keep it though (but they also kept John Carter's orignal appearance too)...
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Just did... and it looks like they've taken the character a giant step backward for men's titillation. I cheered when Marvel got rid of that stupid chain mail bikini for some sensible adventuring clothing. It really urks me to see Paizo among all others, bring it back. Edgar Rice Burroughs never dresssed the character that way. Of course his orginal version, Sonya of Rogatine, was a flintlock and sword wielding pirate. :)Comic? Did Paizo get it's hands on licensing the character? I honestly believed that the fee would be well above what Paizo would be willing to shell out.How much time do you have? The comic itself is supposed to have Pathfinder stats for Red Sonja at around that level, complete with details of the new Sword Devil archetype of Ranger that she is built around.
In any case, I have been working on some unarmored characters of my own. I have found that the 3rd party feat Improved Unarmored Specialist (which doubles the Dex bonus to AC, on top of the +2 AC bonus granted by a prerequisite feat) is very useful for high Dex characters even in the absence of abilities like the Monk's wisdom bonus to AC. To qualify for that feat, you have to somehow give the character the Evasion class feature.
Check the blogs. They have been previewing the Red Sonja character's Pathfinder stats for a couple of weeks now.
Just to point out, Paizo weren't the ones that brought back the chainmail bikini for Red.
They did keep it though (but they also kept John Carter's orignal appearance too)...
It was Robert E Howard that created the character not Burrows. Other authors combined her with another character to create the sword and sorcery version. The most recent comics complete with the coin mail bikini were written by a woman.
In the Wiki for Red Sonja, under the section Creation is this image of Red Sonya of Rogatino by the fantasy novelist Robert E. Howard. This is the inspiration of the character.
The original comic book version is described as:
The fierce and strikingly beautiful warrior-woman clad in revealing bikini-like armor.
So she has armor, albeit not much. It then states:
In her earliest feature story The Song of Red Sonja, drawn by Barry Windsor-Smith, she wore a modest scale mail shirt and red shorts and her figure was less curvaceous. In subsequent appearances she donned the famous bikini armor for which she is now known.
The film has this image.
All of these have armor, so thematically, she should have armor. Kind varies, but it could easily be enchanted to make a decent AC. I would suggest any light armor, or if going by the first comic, a breastplate, at most.
/cevah
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Comic? Did Paizo get it's hands on licensing the character? I honestly believed that the fee would be well above what Paizo would be willing to shell out.How much time do you have? The comic itself is supposed to have Pathfinder stats for Red Sonja at around that level, complete with details of the new Sword Devil archetype of Ranger that she is built around.
In any case, I have been working on some unarmored characters of my own. I have found that the 3rd party feat Improved Unarmored Specialist (which doubles the Dex bonus to AC, on top of the +2 AC bonus granted by a prerequisite feat) is very useful for high Dex characters even in the absence of abilities like the Monk's wisdom bonus to AC. To qualify for that feat, you have to somehow give the character the Evasion class feature.
I have to say that the sword devil archetype from the comic is pretty cool, though it is mostly unrecognizable as a ranger. My only beef is that unless you have the stats to have a great str in addition to dex, charisma, and con, you are going to have to rely on it's death vow to do decent damage. Of course, they did throw in an extra vow feat that mostly fixes this even though it seems like a feat tax for the archetype.