one of the many problems i have with Pathfinder is while its cool to make base classes stay relevant, I feel like prestige classes become underwhelming.
I was looking at the Deadly Dealer feat, and I thought "hey, this would go great with an astrology themed witch who throws tarot cards or other card themed decks of cards at people as her primary weapon." but looking at Witches poor BAB and pretty much every other physical aspect of them i decided that perhaps taking a prestige class like Eldritch Knight would help fix some of that, and it would.... but then I looked at it and I was like what about Patron Spells, taking the Star or Space themed patron spell line wouldn't mean jack if i don't get them because you don't gain patron spells when you level up in a prestige class.
Same thing kind of applies to oracles and their mystery spells.
The only difference I can see is that Oracles and their mystery spells like a sorcerer with their bloodline spells are specific mentioned at x level as a gained class feature, where as Witches and their patron spells don't seem to mention that.
So do witches still gaining their new patron spells as they level up in prestige classes that increase their arcane caster level? Do oracles and Sorcerers still gain theirs?
Mystery/Bloodline spells are class features gained by leveling up. I don't think Patron spells are the same in that regard, so you should still get them.
Mystery/Bloodline spells are class features gained by leveling up. I don't think Patron spells are the same in that regard, so you should still get them.
They're handled the same. They're granted at specific levels at the same intervals, so I don't know where the idea they're not is coming from. You don't get bonus spells provided by a class feature by level a different class (prestige class in this case).
Simple. Mystery and Bloodline spells are in class features, patron spells are not.
Simple. Mystery and Bloodline spells are in class features, patron spells are not.
You guys are just pulling our leg, right?
At 1st level, when a witch gains her familiar, she must also select a patron. This patron is a vague and mysterious force, granting the witch power for reasons that she might not entirely understand. While these forces need not be named, they typically hold influence over one of the following forces. At 2nd level, and every two levels thereafter, a witch's patron adds new spells to a witch's list of spells known. These spells are also automatically added to the list of spells stored by the familiar.
.
Even if I were to accept your premise, the patron spells are still tied to witch level progression and it's familiar feature.
Let's be fair, it says level, not witch level, and all familiar cares about is caster level. There's a place for my view.
So do witches still gaining their new patron spells as they level up in prestige classes that increase their arcane caster level? Do oracles and Sorcerers still gain theirs?
Because the wording does not specify "character level," the RAW assumption is "(witch) class level." So, no additional patron spells.
Similarly, oracles and sorcerers do not gain additional mystery or bloodline spells from prestige classes that increase casting unless specifically mentioned (i.e., rage prophet* and dragon disciple).
This is very different from the additional "bonus spells" from a cleric's domain (which are explicitly tied to the ability to cast spells of a specific spell-level, rather than the PC's class level).
*- which is technically a different, although similar, feature
Thanks, well no go there.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So far, the only prestige classes that would enable a Witch to advance her hexes or patron spells would be the Evangelist and the Winter Witch.
So do witches still gaining their new patron spells as they level up in prestige classes that increase their arcane caster level? Do oracles and Sorcerers still gain theirs?Because the wording does not specify "character level," the RAW assumption is "(witch) class level." So, no additional patron spells.
Similarly, oracles and sorcerers do not gain additional mystery or bloodline spells from prestige classes that increase casting unless specifically mentioned (i.e., rage prophet* and dragon disciple).
This is very different from the additional "bonus spells" from a cleric's domain (which are explicitly tied to the ability to cast spells of a specific spell-level, rather than the PC's class level).
*- which is technically a different, although similar, feature
Would you say a Shaman is a exception to this rule though? Their spells seem to be tied directly to the wandering spirit class feature and that feature seems to not be limited by class level in terms of when it grants the spells rather, so long as you have the required spell slots or i might be mistaken. I mention it because their is a oracle archetype that uses the shamans spirit guide/wandering spirit? class feature and has the ability to change spirits each day when she regains spells and thus alters her spell list.
Yes to the shaman.
Yes to the Oracle Spirit Guide.