| Zelgadas Greyward |
Background: I am currently running a mythic game. I'm currently working on treasure for an upcoming adventure, and I ran into some issues.
I am trying to give the party's primary front-line tank (a Swashbuckler/Inquisitor multiclass + Guardian) a way to bypass DR/Epic a limited amount of time per day. And, aside from handing her a +4 weapon (far too expensive at this level) so she can Bane it up to +6, I don't see any method of doing so.
I thought "well, what about a Legendary Item ability" - and I looked those over, but those don't do it either. And, while looking that over, I noticed the strange wording of the Legendary Item stuff.
It says that you can take Legendary Item twice to make your item a minor artifact (or thrice to make it a major artifact). Is that just a tag for prereqs, or does it actually allow you to upgrade the item (at cost or, if you have upgradable, half cost) to a +6 item?
In other words, if (in the future) this character were to take Legendary Item Path Ability twice (or thrice?), could she pay to upgrade her weapon to +6 enhancement bonus and thus penetrate Epic DR? If not, then what's the point of "becoming a minor/major artifact"? If so, then how does one calculate the cost for that upgrade? Does a +6 Flaming Burst sword cost 128,000gp, the same as a +3 Vorpal sword (ie, +8 overall bonus)?
tl;dr
Does taking the Legendary Item Path Ability 2 or 3 times allow one to upgrade a weapon to +6 enhancement bonus? And, if so, how does one calculate that cost since artifacts don't list a cost?
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Oh, and if anyone has an idea about a magic item ability that would grant the ability to penetrate epic DR a limited amount per day that would work for an 8th level character, that would be helpful in the short term.
| Zelgadas Greyward |
Under mythic rules you only need +6 equivalent, so a +5 flaming sword does the job.
Just to mention.
And surely the character has the sudden block guardian call?
What? I could've sworn that wasn't correct.
**checks the SRD**
I'll be damned. Was that some sort of errata? That completely destroys any challenge presented by epic DR.
In fact, that means that my Swashbuckler/Inquisitor can laugh at Epic DR WITHOUT any Mythic ranks or abilites right now using her +2 Flaming Burst rapier and the Bane class feature.
That, further, means that both Alignment DR and Adamantium DR are harder to bypass than Epic.
Edit: I'm not arguing - if it says so on the SRD, it's the rule. I'm just shaking my head in dismay at the devaluing of Epic DR.
Oh, and yes, she has Sudden Block, but that's only one attack per round and doesn't allow her to bypass with any of her main attacks or repostes.
| Chemlak |
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Amusingly I'm about to discuss design balance when talking about the mythic rules.
The bypassing of Epic DR with +6 or better enhancement equivalent weapons is a specific rule alteration for Mythic games, so don't worry, and you should have seen the sh*tstorm that happened around here when it was introduced. Fortunately, it hasn't been altered in the DR rules in the bestiaries, which allows us to determine that the rule does only apply to mythic games.
The reason it's there is that Epic DR is almost laughably common in mythic games, and mythic characters should really have a reasonable means of overcoming it (where reasonable is a 72,300+ gp magic weapon).
Okay, having covered that bit, the (somewhat unfortunate) answer is that your swashbuckling inquisitor went guardian, when champion or trickster is totally where it's at. The guardian is fairly heavily focused on defence, while the champion is all about the damage, and the trickster is all about the sneaky cool stuff. Personally, I'd be strongly considering dual path to champion to pick up fleet charge, impossible speed, and as many of maximised critical, penetrating damage, and precision as possible.
However.
Even Epic DR doesn't tend to ramp up particularly high. Even the mythic wyrm red dragon "only" has 20/epic and magic (in a stunning display of redundancy), which can certainly make your character have a very bad day (at least until you pick up Perfect Strike), but by the time you're facing CR 25 creatures, you're a lot higher in level and have the gear to deal with it.
If you're solidly determined to stick with Guardian and not dual path, accept that your role is protection and defence, not offence, and go nuts on the path abilities that let you protect others, like Parry Spell.
| Zelgadas Greyward |
The bypassing of Epic DR with +6 or better enhancement equivalent weapons is a specific rule alteration for Mythic games, so don't worry, and you should have seen the sh*tstorm that happened around here when it was introduced. Fortunately, it hasn't been altered in the DR rules in the bestiaries, which allows us to determine that the rule does only apply to mythic games.
Oh. Huh. Weird. Okay then, so that means a non-mythic game, mythic DR works normally (the Ench bonus itself must be +6 or higher). But in Mythic games, it's easier to break.
The reason it's there is that Epic DR is almost laughably common in mythic games, and mythic characters should really have a reasonable means of overcoming it (where reasonable is a 72,300+ gp magic weapon).
Well, it's laughably common if the GM just spams tons of mythic monsters - which is really illogical since mythic creatures are supposed to be incredibly rare not common and certainly not laughably common.
As a GM, I don't put more than one mythic creature in an adventure at most - most mythic game sessions have no mythic creatures at all. However, I assume that you are talking either about adventure paths or the instincts of most GMs during their first mythic game.
Okay, having covered that bit, the (somewhat unfortunate) answer is that your swashbuckling inquisitor went guardian, when champion or trickster is totally where it's at.
Mythic Combat Reflexes, Ever-ready, and the ability that adds 5 feet to one's reach for AoOs say you're wrong.
With lunge, this player threatens 15 ft. Her strategy is to stand in front of the party and ready an action to attack the first thing that closes. She then AoOs on everything that closes, then hits it, and then parry-repostes its attack on her, meaning that she gets three attacks on the first thing to close and two attacks on everything else that closes.
It is not uncommon for a group of (say) six enemies to charge her and all end up dead on THEIR TURN. This gets even worse if the party alchemist rolls well on initiative and bombs the enemies first. Oh, and since she gains a panache point every time she drops an enemy, she can afford to spend 5 panache because she will regain it all by killing them (either during their turn or her next turn).
Of course, this doesn't work on ranged enemies or spellcasters, but since the bulk of enemies are melee and have 10ft reach or less, it works pretty damn.
The only "problem" is dealing with Epic DR - and apparently she already beats Epic with Bane, so... yeah, no mistake made.
This player has played a Mythic Swashbuckler before and knows that Guardian + Parry and Reposte is absolutely broken. Hence the Swashbuckler dip for her Inquisitor.
If you're solidly determined to stick with Guardian and not dual path, accept that your role is protection and defence, not offence,
Again, I'm the GM of this game, not the player. And, as noted above, Guardian is not a problem - except for dealing with Epic DR, which only comes up occasionally.
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ANYWAY....
That still doesn't answer my other question (which, admittedly, is far, far less pressing now).
Does taking Legendary Item path ability twice (to make it a minor artifact) allow you to upgrade a weapon to +6 enhancement bonus? And, if so, how much would it cost?
| Snowlilly |
There is no legendary item ability that explicitly gives the ability to bypass epic DR.
Foe-Biting, on the other hand, will not only overwhelm DR, it overwhelms just about everything else.
Mythic Power Attack + Mythic Improved Critial + Foe-biting = everything dead in 1 round.
*The swashbuckler really should dual path to trickster, just so he can crit with precision damage.