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I think i have figured out a way to do it but i want some verification.
Would the ability to apply sneak attack as a swift action as per the combat feat "strangler" work with the attack action afforded by the combat feat "hamatula strike"?
Strangler: http://archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Strangler
Hamatula strike: http://archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Hamatula%20Strike
Basically, i want to know if i figured out a way to apply sneak attack while grappled at reach range.
As per the Strangler feat on the prd, and the Hamatula Strike on d20pfsrd, the two seem compatible. Of course, the wording is different (One requires you 'maintain' the grapple, and the latter simply makes a grapple check to deal damage), But it's fairly easy to judge that the grapple check to deal damage is the same as maintaining the grapple and choosing to deal damage.
By RAW, I'd say no; The two are not identical actions and would not function together. As a more liberal reading, I'd say 'Yes'- Just try not to push your luck by doing this little stunt with a barbed arrow+rope, and it's pretty easy to houserule it together.
As per the Strangler feat on the prd, and the Hamatula Strike on d20pfsrd, the two seem compatible. Of course, the wording is different (One requires you 'maintain' the grapple, and the latter simply makes a grapple check to deal damage), But it's fairly easy to judge that the grapple check to deal damage is the same as maintaining the grapple and choosing to deal damage.
By RAW, I'd say no; The two are not identical actions and would not function together. As a more liberal reading, I'd say 'Yes'- Just try not to push your luck by doing this little stunt with a barbed arrow+rope, and it's pretty easy to houserule it together.
woops, misunderstood the post,
you're right, its not super clear whether or not hamatula strike is using the base grapple rule or if its adding a new one
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Right. Once you maintain a grapple you may choose to do damage. Hamatula strike says you can use an attack action to deal damage at a -4 to succeed. Maintaining a grapple is a standard action.
So,
1)does the grapple attack action to damage granted from hamatula strike use up the standard action to maintain a grapple?
Or
2)does it count as an extra action after the the check to maintain?
I personally feel if it is 1 then stangler would not work but if it is 2 then it would.
It seems like this question has actually been quite popular in the past, especially with regards to Greater Grapple being used.
This is less well researched opinion, but as far as I can tell, I'd rule it like this:
1) Hamatula Strike allows you to make a unique grapple check that grants the grappled condition, but without the need to drag them adjacent to you.
2) Hamatula Strike's attack action is Not identical to the grapple maneuver to maintain a grapple, and does not count for the Strangler feat. You simply deal damage with the weapon you're grappling with as normal.
3) *IF* you happen to be adjacent do your opponent (Or they are within your natural reach), you may Then make a grapple combat maneuver as a standard action (Or whatever action you can make it) to Maintain the grapple and choose to Deal Damage (as opposed to pin). In This situation only, you may apply the Strangler feat.
right, thats what i was thinking too. the hamatula wording allows you to make a special -4 roll for damage, but if you are at range you can't roll to maintain the grapple after that (unless you are a non-humanoid of course).
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Thats kind of where i was landing too. Im just not great at making my thoughts into words.
So i guess the next question would be, would thhe grapple from hamatula strike immediately end after dealing the damage since there is no way to maintain?
Also, it was my understanding that the roll to maintain a grapple would occcur before you can choose to damage. So would this unique action take the place of the maintain roll in order to cause the damage and then i'd lose the grapple?
o i guess the next question would be, would thhe grapple from hamatula strike immediately end after dealing the damage since there is no way to maintain?
Also, it was my understanding that the roll to maintain a grapple would occcur before you can choose to damage. So would this unique action take the place of the maintain roll in order to cause the damage and then i'd lose the grapple?
Your enemy would not be able to eliminate their Grappled condition without performing an Escape Artist attempt or a Grapple maneuver to escape the grappled condition. On the bright side, they would not be able to take "Control" of the grapple unless they happen to be adjacent to you or you are within their reach.
An attack action is a type of standard action, so yes, it 'eats up' one.
Unfortunately, without Greater Grapple or something similar to shorten a grapple combat maneuver, you won't be able to maintain the grapple and do the attack action allowed by the feat.
If you Did have it, a GM would still likely rule that you and your opponent lose the grappled condition once you let go of your weapon, and with the grappled condition, you can't move up. So... there's basically no way to do both in one round unless you happen to have a natural reach capable of reaching the enemy.
Here is an interesting point about the grapple rules that came up in another thread a while ago (this will probably not fly at any table unless your GM thinks its funny, and even then it won't last long in all likelihood), the rules for grappling do not cover range very well. The only time they come close to describing a range is when they say "Humanoid creatures without two free hands attempting to grapple a foe take a –4 penalty on the combat maneuver roll." For humanoid creatures this means that your range for grappling is your natural reach. However, this implies that there is no limiting range for non-humanoid creature types (lol).
Again, just an interesting oversight in the rules, and one that probably won't impact gameplay.