Seltyiel Marauder Draw power


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


Hi, i have a some questions about Seltyiel Marauder draw power :

For 3 points you have : "When you discard or recharge a card that has the Pirate or Swashbuckling trait, you may draw 1 card or 2 cards"

So :

1) Can i draw one card look at it then decide if i draw another one? Also it's seems obvious but can i not draw at all?

2)
- Can i draw when i have to discard from damage?
- To prevent damage from the ship?
- When my hand is too big at the end of the turn and i have to discard?
- From a location effect?
- From a ship effect?
Is there a limit somewhere on what type of discard/recharge i need to draw?

3) Is there a limit of time i can draw from this?

All this question are because i think this power is so powerful (maybe too much), everyone agree Seltyiel don't have a good non combat but in a party with the Alchemist who can make him succeed with potion and if everyone give him one Pirate or Swashbuckling card at every turn, the only thing he needs is healing and he can burst location in one turn easily. He can also give his blessing to other to have a better chance of drawing Pirate or Swashbuckling cards.

Exemple :

You fight, you discard a Swashbuckling weapon, you draw 2 > use an Eye patch, recharge it, draw 2 > use a Pirate ally to explore again, draw 2 > it's a non combat int check use Captain to recharge a pirate ally, draw 2 > and so on.

There is so many ways to draw, in one turn he can draw all his deck so quicky and easily just by using the cards, if people feed him for Pirate/Swashbuckling cards, heal him and if he dries himself from non Pirate/Swashbuckling it's so fast and fluid i must have miss something on this power.

Thanks.

Silver Crusade

1. Yes and yes. "May" means you do not have to do something.

2. So, I feel like this one should be no, because most powers of this ilk would say "When you discard or recharge a card [bold]for its power[/bold]..." But this does not say that, and I don't see that it's been FAQ'd to just be for its power, so as written, any time you discard a card, it works.

3. It's powerful in that sense, but remember that his deck is his health. At the end of his turn, if he doesn't use all those cards, he's going to have to discard them. Eventually he's going to run out of cards to draw and be dead.


1) My money is on 'you can't'. Basically, when you discard Basic, Swashbuckling, you're faced with a choice: Draw 1/ Draw 2/ Draw None. First you make that choice, then you execute it - at which point it's too late to change the choice.

2) As quoted by you, you can draw at all of these instances EXCEPT when you discard extra cards. This happens at the Reset Your Hand step and *after* the End of Turn step, which your last legal opportunity to activate powers.

3) This is a triggered power and as such is only limited by the number of instances that the trigger occurs. There's a FAQ on it.

As for usability - it can be argued. As you mention, it's heavily dependent on specific strategy (frequent healing and optimized rechargeable Pirate/Swashbuckling). If you're willing to go the distance - I'd say you have deserved whatever benefits you reap.
The 'draw' powers are completely lost on some people, me included. I'd generally prefer a power that improves my chance at dealing with an encounter, rather than *maybe* drawing a helpful card. (Getting faster to your explores - Allies and Blessings- is good, but an explore may be a bad thing if you can't deal with its challenge - and Seltyel's d4 Wisdom in S&S is great a challenge as any; this also seem to make people prone to overextending themselves).
By the same token, I was dumbfounded by people extolling the virtues of Restoration and Mastiff, since I'd rather put a useful card in my deck, rather than a card the *improves my chances* of drawing a helpful card. I realize there are powerful 'card engines' that can be built around this, but they feel a bit too mechanical rather than adventurous to me, so different strokes to different people I guess.
Bottomline, if setting up and overusing this power feel good to you and doesn't annoy your group - you just go right ahead and enjoy your Seltyel machine, that's what the game's for!


Thanks for the answer.

for 2) that's exactly why i ask because i didn't any information and normaly it's like you said "for its power" or something similar.

for 3) yes it's very powerful and i know the deck is the health but it's the same for everyone he just can drain himself way faster than other and eventually he run out of pirate/swashbuckling anyway.
That's the 2 reason he need more healing than others, i still think it's really worth it tho.

Thanks again, if anyone else have some information or thinks differently i'll take it :)


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Sorry Eliandra, but I need to disagree with you on #1:

1. You choose one of draw 0 (due to "may"), draw 1 card, or draw 2 cards, and then you draw. So, no, you cannot draw 1 and see if it's the card you want before choosing whether or not to draw the 2nd.

2. You draw the cards only after you have finished discarding, so the drawn cards cannot be used to discard for damage or powers. If you are told to discard 3 cards, all 3 of those cards are discarded simultaneously; you can't discard 1, draw 2, and then discard the 2 you just drew. Note that the power doesn't care why you discarded or recharged it -- so that could be because you discarded it due to playing it for its power, due to taking damage, or due to anything else.

3. You can use it each time you are told to discard or recharge cards. The trigger is discarding a card (singular) with the Pirate or Swashbuckling trait, so to use my example earlier if you were told to discard 3 cards and 2 of those cards had the Pirate or Swashbuckling traits, after you finish discarding all 3 cards, you can then draw 2 more cards (or up to 4 if you have that power feat checked off).

Your example doesn't sound all that broken to me, it's just a way of cycling your deck provided you build it correctly, and it only cycles over the course of numerous explorations.


@Longshot11

Hi, thx for the answer too.

1) Ok i understand your point.

2) Very interessting thanks.

3) It was more of an overall question if i didn't cover all the possibilities from my previous questions, i did read this FAQ entry.

For the point of playing heavy draw it's the same for all card games i've played, it's not about having a chance to draw something helpful, it's about rotating your deck to draw faster the great cards you already have recharge.
And for Seltyiel non combat check like i said he need an Alchemist to make him succeed with potion because like you said wis D4 is not good at all.
Anyway don't know what's the best strategy is, don't care, we all play for fun right ^^ just wanted to point out the possibility without having answer like "lol you are gonna die with that much draw" and nothing else.

Thanks again.


@Skizzerz

Hi, thx :)

1) Ok.

2) Didn't think about that but really good point thx.

The exemple was just the beginning of a turn, he can draw all his deck in the first turn of the game depending of the location random cards.
It's not "broken" but it's the fastest i've seen so far.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I have a bit more time to post now, so allow me to cite my rules to justify why I answered the way I did. All of these rules are found on the back page of the WotR rulebook (page 29). They are also present in the back of the S&S rulebook, but I'm quoting WotR as it is currently the most up-to-date version of the rulebook.

1. The response to this is a combination of the rules "Cards Do What They Say", "Cards Don't Do What They Don't Say", and "Choices Matter".

WotR Rulebook wrote:

Cards Do What They Say. Read any card as it is encountered or played, and do what it says as soon as it makes sense. Let the card tell you what to do, and don’t impose limitations that aren’t there. You can play an armor card even if there isn’t one in your deck list. You can play a Cure spell even if it’s not your turn. You can play a blessing on a check even if someone else has played one. Cards say everything they need to say.

Cards Don’t Do What They Don’t Say. Each card’s powers reference specific situations, and if you’re not in those situations, you can’t play it. If a card says it works on “any check,” you can play it on anyone’s check, but if a card says “your check,” it only works on yours. You can’t play a Cure spell to reduce the amount of damage you’re taking, because Cure isn’t about reducing damage. You can’t examine a deck that has no cards. Your weapon doesn’t help you acquire new weapons. Each card tells you what it’s for, and you can use it only for that.

Choices Matter. Your choices have consequences. Once you choose cards for your character, you can’t trade them for other cards whenever you like. If a location makes you choose between attempting a check or banishing a card before closing it, you can’t attempt the check and then banish the card if you fail. If you roll too low on a Combat check, it’s too late to play a Strength spell to improve your result. Once you choose a mythic path, you can’t switch to another one. If something kills your character, your character dies. Every choice matters—take your choices seriously.

The power says you choose how many cards to draw, and that choice matters. You can't choose one card, and then decide it's not the card you wanted so you choose two instead -- the card doesn't say you can do that, so you can't. The card simply says you may draw 1 (☐ or 2) cards. If it wanted you to see what card you drew first, it would be worded like "When you discard (☐ or recharge) a card that has the Pirate or Swashbuckling trait, you may draw 1 card. (☐ Then, you may draw another card.)"

2. This stems from another rule in the back, which is "Finish One Thing Before You Start Something Else." There is also a rule on page 19 of the WotR rulebook (but missing in the S&S rulebook, which is why I'm quoting WotR) that details character powers in more depth. The rule still applies to S&S, but if you were going purely by the S&S rulebook you would need to read between the lines a bit to see how it really works (notably by applying the section on "playing cards" to using character powers, even though it nominally doesn't apply).

WotR rulebook p19 wrote:
Any paragraph in the Powers section of a character card that doesn’t involve playing a card for a particular effect is a mandatory effect that always happens whenever the effect is appropriate.
WotR rulebook p29 wrote:
Finish One Thing Before You Start Something Else. You do many things in a specific order, and you need to finish doing each thing before you do the next thing. You move before you explore, not after. If a spell used in a check can be recharged, finish the first check before you attempt your check to recharge it. If a villain requires two sequential combat checks, finish the first before starting the second. Don’t start a new process until you’ve finished the last one. (That said, if the game doesn’t specify an order for things, you decide the order.)

So, we need to finish discarding cards to damage before we can start something else (namely drawing cards due to the power). The character power doesn't make you play a card for a particular effect, so it is a mandatory action that happens whenever you discard (or recharge if you checked that feat) a card with the Pirate or Swashbuckling trait. However, the power itself says "may", so even though the power unconditionally activates, you don't have to do anything with it if you don't want to.


Hey again.

Well that was very clear and precise thank you for taking extra time to answer again with quote, i don't own the game so i couldn't check the rule books like you did that was very helpful thank you =)


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

You can download PDF versions of the rulebook, if you'd like to peruse it. The way I generally apply the rulebooks is I use the most recently released base set for general rules (Wrath of the Righteous at the time of this post, although in a bit over 2 weeks that will be Mummy's Mask instead), and then use the rulebook included with the set for set-specific rules. For example, rules about ships, plunder, and the fleet card is only found in the Skull & Shackles rulebook.

Download links (also accessible from the product description pages from the base sets):

If you compare the PDF and physical rulebooks, you'll notice they're slightly different, the PDF rulebooks include some (but not all) of the resolutions from their relevant FAQ pages. Since not every FAQ is there, you will still want to check on the FAQ for whatever base set you are playing for additional clarifications.

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