Question on soft cover with ranged and melee reach charactes


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I've had this question come up a lot in games i'm running and playing in. i'm finding it difficult to have a clear answer on it. For games that aren't PFS, we leave it up to the GM however the issue has shown up in some of the PFS games I run and I'm not certain on rules as written for this. So I figured I'd start a thread on it and since I think pictures are better than text, i'm providing links to pictures on my google drive folder to help get some answers. It's going to be a long post covering different situations.

So the question is how does soft cover apply to combat with a ranged character, a melee character that has 10' reach, and Kineticist's kinetic blast? playing into this is the feats precise shot and point blank shot.

What I know:

Soft cover provides a +4 bonus to AC to the creature that has soft cover. This can be a low wall or another creature in the line of sight

When attacking with a ranged weapon onto melee, you take a minus 4 on the attack unless you have both precise shot and point blank shot. That is pretty easy to figure out and applies to all lines of sight from the character to the target.

So how do the two work together.

Example Image 1

In the picture, Valeros is in melee with the monster. Shalelu has out her longbow and wishes to attack the monster. The map is a wide open flat grassland with no obstecles. Shalelu does not have the required feats for firing into melee so from all possible lines of sight to the monster she takes a -4 to hit. This first question is what happens when she is attacking from the positions in the picture. Valeros, by rule provides soft cover to the monster but isn't that already taken into account with the -4 penalty to attack?

My thought here is that the -4 to attack is the same as the +4 AC from soft cover.

Follow up for this scenario, if Shalelu had both point blank shot and precise shot does the monster still get +4 AC from soft cover provided by Valeros?

My thought here is no becuase the -4 to attack is the same as +4 AC from soft cover and precise shot states is removed the -4 to attack with a ranged weapon into melee.

What do rules as written state on this? is it without the feats, Shalelu take a -4 on the attack and the monster get +4 AC when lined up like this and with the feats it's just the +4 AC?

Example 2

This one deals with melee and soft cover. Shalelu is on the opposite side of the monster. I know from here with out point blank shot and precise shot, she takes a -4 penality on attack rolls with her bow. The question this time is about the blonde character, a fighter with a reach weapon like a glaive or a dwarven longhammer. how do the attacks or AC get modified when the fighter attacks with reach and Valeros is in the square directly in front of him? does the monster get +4 AC from soft cover here?

Follow up: if the fighter with reach was in the square above here he is in Example 2, does the monster have soft cover from his attacks still?

Finally, I'm thinking these rulings while dealing with martial weapons also apply to spells that require ranged touch attack and abilities that require a ranged touch attack, i.e. scorching Ray or kinetic blast. how does the soft cover and firing into melee work for those types of attacks? is it the same as above or different because they are spells or class abilities.

If you can't see the pictures in the links, let me know so I can try to fix that.


The penalty for firing into melee (without Precise Shot) is separate to the AC bonus for (soft) cover. So, if you're firing into melee, and the target also has cover both apply (which makes hitting fairly unlikely). If you can move to get round the cover, do so. Alternatively, work your way up to Improved Precise Shot to get rid of the cover bonus to AC.
If the penalty & AC bonus were the same thing, you wouldn't need both Precise Shot & Improved Precise Shot to get rid of them both.

Point Blank Shot is only relevant as a prerequisite for Precise Shot (Ranger Combat Style can avoid it), and for giving a +1 to attack and damage within 30 feet.

Reach weapons use the same rules as ranged weapons to determine cover.

Only incorporeal touch attacks ignore cover, so ranged touch attacks should apply all the same rules

Liberty's Edge

Example #1:
Shalelu is -4 To Hit for firing into melee and the Monster has +4 AC in cover from Shalelu due to Valeros. These are separate modifiers.

Follow-up: Precise Shot only negates the -4 To hit penalty for firing into melee. The bonus from cover stays in effect.

Example #2:
To determine if a monster has cover from an attacker with a reach weapon, chose a corner of the atacker's square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target's square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature, the target has cover from that attacker (+4 to AC). This is the same method used for determining cover from attackers using missile weapons. This can make it rather difficult for a polearm-wielding attacker to get a clear shot when their are other combatants adjacent to the target.

Follow-up: Yes

Follow-up: Spells that require a ranged touch attack are subject to the same rules as missile weapons as far as firing into melee, cover, and many feats and abilities.

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