So I have a tiger that has 1xbite 2xclaw and 2xrake when grappling or pouncing
My DM told me that basically rake and claw were one and the same and as a full round action I can only have 1 bite and 2 claws ( or rakes while grappled) for a total of 3 attacks at ALL times instead of 5, essentially cutting my dps almost in half.
Is my DM accurate or am I getting shafted?
Um, rake and claw are two separate attack types. Short version, your GM is either wrong, or house ruling this.
By RAW on a pounce you get five attacks, and when successfully grapplimg add two rakes to your std three natural attacks.
The entire point of rake is that is using natural weapons that are in a place where they are too awkward to usually use- ie- the back claws that are usually used to support the animal, which only get used when it either has all four legs on the prey (a pounce attack) or it doesn't need to stand (grappling).
So yes- it is pretty clear that the rake is a separate set of attacks.
When a kitten grabs your hand with its claws and bites your thumb, then rakes its back claws through your wrist--well, that's what a rake is.
Um, rake and claw are two separate attack types. Short version, your GM is either wrong, or house ruling this.
By RAW on a pounce you get five attacks, and when successfully grapplimg add two rakes to your std three natural attacks.
And its easy to start a grapple with a tiger as all its attacks have grab.
And having just re-read the ability, it shares the same format as rend but completely different mechanics but both abilities are found on the same type of foes. It certainly confused me for a while...
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Well, your GM is almost right about the situation when you are grappling. Rakes can be sub-optimal. You can only use rake attacks on a pounce, or when you have grappled a victim.
On a pounce, it's straighforward (and your GM seems to have this bit wrong). The rake attacks can be used everytime you pounce.
You can also rake whenever you start your turn in a grapple. Rake then gives you two "free" claw attacks. But this also means that you have to maintain your grapple at the start of the round, which costs you a standard action. So when you are grappling, after the turn in which you establish the grapple, you either
1. release the grapple at the start of your turn and full attack: claw, claw, bite (which might establish a new grapple via grab) OR
2. use a standard action to maintain your grapple and gain two free rake attacks if you succeed.
It seems like the rake option also exists if you have been grappled by something.
Rake (Ex) A creature with this special attack gains extra natural attacks under certain conditions, typically when it grapples its foe. In addition to the options available to all grapplers, a monster with the rake ability gains two free claw attacks that it can use only against a grappled foe. The bonus and damage caused by these attacks is included in the creature's description. A monster with the rake ability must begin its turn already grappling to use its rake—it can't begin a grapple and rake in the same turn.
Format: rake (2 claws +8, 1d4+2); Location: Special Attacks.
Pounce (Ex) When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can make a full attack (including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability).
Format: pounce; Location: Special Attacks.
Just so you know exactly how you can use your abilities...
Charge Attack- 1 bite, 2 claws and 2 rake attacks
Full-Attack- 1 bite, 2 claws
Grapple- (to maintain AND if successful), damage deal bite or claw damage automatically, 2 rake attacks (don't forget their reduced AC from grappled condition). move move with your opponent, 2 rake attacks. pin opponent gains pinned condition, 2 rake attacks (don't forget their further reduced AC from pinned condition).
The only attacks you can make after successfully maintaining a grapple are the rake attacks. If you are maintaining to deal damage it is automatically inflicted, you choose bite or claw. Don't forget Grab adds a +4 bonus to your grapple checks. Don't forget the +5 circumstance bonus from maintaining a grapple.
You never get a full attack action while grappling. Maintaining or initiating a grapple is a Standard action and you choose your grapple action between damage, move, pin or tie up.
Just so you know exactly how you can use your abilities...
Charge Attack- 1 bite, 2 claws and 2 rake attacks
Full-Attack- 1 bite, 2 claws
Grapple- (to maintain AND if successful), damage deal bite or claw damage automatically, 2 rake attacks (don't forget their reduced AC from grappled condition). move move with your opponent, 2 rake attacks. pin opponent gains pinned condition, 2 rake attacks (don't forget their further reduced AC from pinned condition).The only attacks you can make after successfully maintaining a grapple are the rake attacks. If you are maintaining to deal damage it is automatically inflicted, you choose bite or claw. Don't forget Grab adds a +4 bonus to your grapple checks. Don't forget the +5 circumstance bonus from maintaining a grapple.
You never get a full attack action while grappling. Maintaining or initiating a grapple is a Standard action and you choose your grapple action between damage, move, pin or tie up.
Thanks for laying that out. I have a wizard in my group who frequently summons a celestial dire tiger. That thing is devastating.