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Anyone want to help me with a build idea I have rolling around in my head? It will be for PF Society play, so only PFS legal materials.
I want to make a wrecking ball character that specializes in the Dwarven Dorn-Dergar (chain flail)
I was thinking of making him a human and using the alternate human trait 'Adoptive Parentage - Dwarves' to get access to all the dwarven racial weapons, and possibly taking the 'Racial Heritage - Dwarf' feat. Or, I could just make him a straight up dwarf.
I would prefer to be a relatively simple damage dealer build...I would rather not play around being a maneuver monkey, I am also not looking to be a crazy AoO reach whack-a-mole abuse build.
I was thinking a power attack/cleave build maybe? Or a whirlwind attack build maybe? I was also leaning towards either straight fighter, or maybe dip a level or 2 into another class to cherry pick a good ability?
It is for PFS, so 20 point stat build...I was thinking something along the lines of either 19(+2 human) Str, 12 Dex, 15 Con, 10 Int, 12 Wis, 7 Cha. Or...20(+2 human) Str, 10 Dex, 15 Con, 10 Int, 10 Wis, 7 Cha. Willing to change things up of course if necessary.
Human alternate trait: Adoptive Parents - Dwarves
Traits: Reactionary (+2 init) and ?
Feats: Probably Racial Heritage (Dwarf) at 1, otherwise I am open to suggestions. Maybe take the 'Dirty Fighting' Feat to unlock some of the combat maneuver feats so I don't have to pump more points into Dex and Int?
I would also like to work my way up to heavy armor/full plate...I am also considering working up towards the 'Dorn-Dergar Master' feat so I could wield it 1 handed and use a shield in the other hand...but that would require sacrificing str to bring dex up to 14-15 to qualify for TWF...so I don't think that is probably worth it.
Thoughts?
You can always just spend a feat on Dorn-Dergar proficiency.
I wouldn't go with Dorn-Dergar Master unless you were planning on using Two-Weapon Fighting with two of them, or with shield bashes. It's not that difficult to get a strength-based Human character up to 17 DEX for full two-weapon fighting (minus greater TWF, but who cares about a -10 offhand attack you get at level 11?).
Felling Smash is a pretty fun feat that lets you make a trip attempt as a swift action when you hit with a standard action attack, and then attack again with a Greater Trip AoO if the trip works. I can't think of a more thematic attack for a chain-flail than double-bashing a target to the floor with Power Attack.
Something I recently looked at was using 3 levels of Snakebite Striker on a Fighter to get some Sneak Attack (2d6 with Accomplished Sneak Attacker), and then use feinting with Felling Smash (Snakebite Striker can feint while moving). Again, the theme would work perfectly - using a whirling chain-flail to fake-out a foe and then bash them extra-painfully. Feint is a fun and unique option that sees sadly little play.
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The only way I figured I would be able to swing TWF with this guy would be to dip 2 levels into ranger to pick up the TWF ranger style.
Maybe go 1 level in figher, 2 into ranger, then back to fighter? Should end up with the same # of talents I think, same BAB...I think I would end up limited to only light/medium armors though if I read the ranger rules correctly.
I thought you could not multi-class a hybrid class with either of it's parent classes. I had thought about multi-classing a Rogue/Ninja combo at one point and was told I couldn't because rogue was a parent class of ninja.
You can't multiclass Rogue with Ninja because Ninja is an 'alternate' class Rogue. Multiclassing a hybrid class with a parent class was ruled to be totally legit.
Ranger style would only give you basic TWF anyhow, and it doesn't work with heavy armor. You can easily do something like 16/18STR, 15DEX, 14CON, 10INT, 12WIS, 7CHA to get TWF and then use an item or put bonus stats into DEX to reach Improved TWF. Or, if you use Dual Talent Human you can put a racial bonus into both strength and dexterity right at the beginning. You can also just start with a 15/17STR instead if you need to free up some point-buy.
There are a million interesting options for Fighter multiclassing, including taking some Barbarian to get Rage, or even taking some Ninja to get supernatural invisibility. It really depends on how you want to do the character concept. I suggested the Snakebite Striker Brawler thing since it lets you do a really physical, heavy character who fights with some skill and cunning along with some brute force.
So it depends on how you see the character besides 'strong'. What does he fight with? Does he Rage? Is he cunning? Does he worship a god and have some supernatural abilities? Is he intelligent/wise/charismatic as well as strong?
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I am picturing him as a strong and tough surly soldier type, dwarf or dwarf-like. Not really picturing anything supernatural or barbarian.
The adoptive parents alternate human trait replaces the human bonus feat at level 1, but it gets more benefit than just being able to wield the Dorn-Dergar (lets you wield all the dwarven racial weapons and speak dwarven to start off with) so it would be better than just taking weapon proficiency. The dwarven blood feat probably isn't worth it unless there is some specific dwarven feats or magic items that I can't get any other way.
Going TWF/Dergar Master + shield bash sounds pretty cool, and fighters get so many feats that it could probably work...would take a while to get there, probably level 7 before it all clicks...maybe start with power attack then re-train it into TWF at 4?
Even if you take Dual Talent Human to boost strength and dexterity right at the start, you should still have enough feats to pick up Racial Heritage and TWF, along with Double Slice, Improved Shield Bash, and Dorn-Dergar Master to make the whole TWF thing work by 5. Shield Slam is a fun move to take at some point.
For a Fighter Archetype you might want to go with Two-Weapon Warrior, though there are other interesting options. Dwarves don't really get that much out of Armor Training.
If you take the trait Shield-Trained you can wield a heavy shield as if it was a light weapon, so that you take no extra penalty for going TWF with two larger weapons.
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Here is what I have right now.
Str: 18 (+2 racial bonus)
Dex: 15
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 12
Cha: 7
Human Alternate Trait: Adoptive Parentage (Dwarf)
Traits: Shield Trained (Religion: Gorum)
Reactionary (Combat)
I figure I will wield a regular flail and shield until level 4 when I can pick up Dorn-Dergar Master.
1. Racial Heritage (Dwarf)
FBF- Improved Shield Bash
2. FBF- Two-Weapon Fighting
3. Shield Focus
4. FBF- Dorn-Dergar Master
5. Darting Viper
6. FBF- Improved Bull Rush
7. Shield Slam
8. FBF- Weapon Focus - Dorn-Dergar
9. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
10. FBF- Double Slice
11. Iron Will
12. FBF- Greater Bull Rush
What do you think?
I don't know if you want to even try to use the dorn-dergar as a reach weapon if you're going TWF. You can't easily change the reach on it if it's in one hand (it's a move action even with Darting Viper), and it's pretty messy to TWF with one weapon with reach and the other not. I guess you could take Lunge to do it more easily. Anyhow, either way, I'm not sure Darting Viper is all that useful if you're using the dorn-dergar in one hand.
You can't take Bull Rush feats without Power Attack, but you don't need them anyhow. Shield Slam uses your attack roll with the shield instead of a combat maneuver check, so the Bull Rush feats don't really work with Shield Slam (except that allies get AoOs with Greater).
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Yep, what Andre said. I am using this one:
Adoptive Parentage: Humans are sometimes orphaned and adopted by other races. Choose one humanoid race without the human subtype. You start play with that race's languages and gain that race's weapon familiarity racial trait (if any). If the race does not have weapon familiarity, you gain either Skill Focus or Weapon Focus as a bonus feat that is appropriate for that race instead. This racial trait replaces the bonus feat trait.
Which would give me the following:
Weapon Familiarity: Dwarves are proficient with battleaxes, heavy picks, and warhammers, and treat any weapon with the word “dwarven” in its name as a martial weapon.
and
Languages: Dwarves begin play speaking Common and Dwarven.
instead of the normal human bonus feat.
Anyone care to chime in on the rest of the build? Good, bad or otherwise?