At some point in the future one of my two players will run Iron Gods for the other and myself. I heard that this is one AP where Rogues are actually pretty useful and after reading up on the Scavenger I thought I'd do a test build using UnRogue as the base. Here's the rudimentary backstory and stat block:
Lark was once part of a small -Thieves'- "Retrievers'" Guild. The difference between them and regular burglars is that the Technic League occasionally sends a guy out to the city to request the -theft- "retrieval" of certain items and baubles deemed valuable enough by the League. In exchange for locating, stealing, and delivering these items to the League the guild gets a cut of the profits, access to nifty gadgets for their jobs, and special treatment from local law enforcement. Members are given a pin to wear on the inside of their left sleeve for identification which can get you out of minor offenses and cause the guards to look the other way once or twice if you cause trouble.
Lark has a single father who is often away from town for work, although he never says what. In his spare time Lark often hung around Khonnir Baine's place where he picked up lots of random knowledge about mechanical devices and the Androffan language. He would use this information to help identify the guild's marks, bypass rudimentary traps, and occasionally get rough translations for older runes. He was considered something of a tech-savvy expert despite not handling an actual piece of machinery once in his life.
One day a newbie who joined the guild was assigned to Lark to complete a retrieval. The mission took them to a house on the outskirts of town. While Lark searched for their mark the newbie snuck off to take care of a job of his own - killing the home's owner as she slept. When Lark noticed blood on the newbie's clothing as they left he doubled back and discovered the grisly scene. This was a turning point for him, and Lark ratted him out to local law enforcement.
What Lark didn't know was that the victim was one of the League's people. They decided not to cover for the guild this time, leading to most of its members being tracked down and taken in - all except for Lark who was granted amnesty. This was not entirely a good thing however as the members who weren't caught spread the word, branding him as a Snitch and barring him from entry or cooperation with any other guilds. Lark's skillset lent itself to burglary, but as a Snitch he couldn't get jobs, tools, or allies. When it seemed that he had nobody left to turn to Khonnir brought up the idea of venturing into the caverns below Torch. Lark was taking time to decide whether or not to agree when the town's torch stopped working.
Lark, Scavenger UnRogue 1
CN Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +4; Senses: Darkvision 60' Perception +5
Defense============================================================
AC 17, touch 14, Flat-footed 13
hp 11
Fort +2, Ref +6, Will +3
Defensive abilities
Offense============================================================
Speed 30' Land
Melee Rapier +4 (1d6) or Light Mace +4 (1d6)
Ranged Dart +4 (1d4) or Shortbow +4 (1d6)
Special Attacks Sneak Attack +1d6
Tactics=============================================================
Before Combat Due to his Dimdweller trait and Sneak Attack Lark favors environments of low light and darkness, making it easier to sneak up on enemies and catch them off-guard.
During Combat Lark capitalizes on every advantage. During the surprise round he uses ranged attacks with his darts or shortbow against flatfooted enemies. Once combat starts he prefers to flank enemies with his Rapier, switching to the Light Mace against DR/Bludgeoning. If flanking isn't possible he attempts using Stealth, Feints, and weapon-based Combat Maneuvers to create openings.
Morale Typically, Lark fights until at or below 3 HP then withdraws from combat and attempts to use stealth to escape. If cornered he fights to the death.
Statistics============================================================
Str 10, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 10
Base Atk 0 CMB 0 CMD 14
Feats: Iron Will, Technologist, Weapon Finesse, +1 Feat
Skills Acrobatics +7, Bluff +4, Climb +3, Craft (mechanical) +5, Disable Device +7, Knowledge (engineering) +5, Linguistics +5, Perception +5, Stealth +7
Languages Common, Hallit, Androffan
Combat Gear Rapier, Darts (10), Shortbow, 40 Arrows, Studded Leather Armor Other Gear 56 gp
SQ Finesse Training, Sneak Attack +1d6, Technic Training
Racial Traits Dimdweller, Bonus Feat
I am having a few issues right now.
1) Lark's damage is abysmal due to his DEX 18. I figured that without BAB, Weapon Focus, class features, or special items to boost my attack bonus I would have too hard a time hitting things at Level 1. I was planning on taking Combat Trick: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Estoc) for my Level 2 Rogue Trick then using that as the main weapon. Biting the bullet and going STR 13 / DEX 17 to gain access to Power Attack seems like an option, but with 3/4 BAB it scales poorly and further decreases my attack bonus (plus I have no idea if the GM would let me use it with DEX-to-damage or not).
2) I can't think of a second feat to take. Great Fortitude seems like overkill as I could take a +1 Fortitude trait, and while Toughness is a must-have on melee d8 classes I'm not sure if I should take it early or later. I was certainly debating on it, but if anyone has another feat idea I'm all ears.
3) I'm debating on campaign traits between Local Ties for the sweet +3 bonus, Robot Slayer for the bonus to attack and AC against robots, or Against the Technic League to supplement my damage.
4) I'm worried about whether I'll regret choosing a Piercing weapon for this campaign, as my gut is telling me mechanical creatures probably have some form of DR/Bludgeoning
Although Slayer would probably work better for combat purposes I'd prefer to find a way to make the UnRogue work. Does anyone have suggestions?
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1) Rules-wise there's nothing against power-attacking while doing Dex to damage. In this AP you'll run into Hardness (although many enemies can be sneak-attacked), so concentrating damage into hits is worthwhile. As a rogue that goes for "quality" over "quantity" hits you could use Furious Focus with the Estoc to offset the Power Attack to-hit penalty.
2) If you want to efficiently make ranged attacks at the beginning of combat, you'll want feats to boost Initiative and also to speed up drawing weapons (Quickdraw).
3) Local Ties is pretty sweet for a rogue. If you take that and someone else has Stargazer you can get by without Technologist for a couple of levels.
4) Mechanical creatures tend towards hardness or DR/adamantine. DR/bludgeoning is more for bony undead. Though this AP is more diverse in creature types than you might expect.
On the whole UnRogue is fine for this AP. Dex-oriented AC stands up better against firearm style attacks than heavy armor.
The advantage of rogues in Iron Gods is the many ways Disable Device helps the party. Trap-finding sometimes matters, too. This adventure path has lots of devices. Technologist is a good call. Since Lark is an associate of Khonnir Baine, the Local Ties campaign trait would also be appropriate.
The end of Lark's backstory conflicts with the events of the plot hook to Fires of Creation. One day, the violet-flamed torch that mysteriouly burns at the top of Black Hill, and is the main source of income for the town of Torch, went out. The townsfolk decided to investigate the underwater caves from Weeping Pond that went into Black Hill, to find the cause of the torch's failure and restore it. Five expeditions went under the hill. Only the third expedition, led by Khonnir Baine, returned. The fifth expedition, also led by Khonnir Baine, did not return.
While it is possible that Khonnir Baine was considering exploring under Black Hill before the torch went out, Lark would have already passed up two opportunities to accompany Khonnir Baine under the hill in the standard plot hook. Maybe your GM will agree that Lark was in the third expedition, but was left out of the fifth because he was recovering from severe frostbite.
4) I'm worried about whether I'll regret choosing a Piercing weapon for this campaign, as my gut is telling me mechanical creatures probably have some form of DR/Bludgeoning
One mechanic that ought to be well known to any adventurer in Numeria, but is not well known to players, is that robots have Hardness. That is like DR/adamantine, except it reduces energy damage, too. That is the weakness of Lark's low damage, but sufficiently high sneak attack damage could overcome it. Adamantine weapons are sold in Torch, but they are very expensive. This is a significant difficulty for all classes.
1) Rules-wise there's nothing against power-attacking while doing Dex to damage. In this AP you'll run into Hardness (although many enemies can be sneak-attacked), so concentrating damage into hits is worthwhile. As a rogue that goes for "quality" over "quantity" hits you could use Furious Focus with the Estoc to offset the Power Attack to-hit penalty.
Since Lark has Str 10, Piranha Strike is more feasible than Power Attack. Due to rogue's +0 BAB at 1st level, neither can be taken at 1st level.
One suggestion: do not plan ahead too much, it is unique campaign where options provided by particular modules are so good that you may consider different choices that usual copy-paste variation of most effective builds.
A few thoughts:
If your ranged attack is going to be opening shot then immediately switch to melee, consider using crossbow for the harder hit.
In fact, if your party doesn't have a Gunslinger or at least another DEX/Ranged character, you might want to reserve a future Feat for Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearm) since that covers a lot of tech weapons.
For Rogues in general Two Weapon Fighting is nice because the more chances to apply Sneak Attack damage the better, but given Iron Gods I see the appeal of the single hard hit.
I agree that Local Ties (Disable Device) can cover for Technologist for a while (the party I'm DMing through Iron Gods has a Slayer who is covering the trap duty, and that's what he did).
1) Rules-wise there's nothing against power-attacking while doing Dex to damage. In this AP you'll run into Hardness (although many enemies can be sneak-attacked), so concentrating damage into hits is worthwhile. As a rogue that goes for "quality" over "quantity" hits you could use Furious Focus with the Estoc to offset the Power Attack to-hit penalty.
2) If you want to efficiently make ranged attacks at the beginning of combat, you'll want feats to boost Initiative and also to speed up drawing weapons (Quickdraw).
3) Local Ties is pretty sweet for a rogue. If you take that and someone else has Stargazer you can get by without Technologist for a couple of levels.
4) Mechanical creatures tend towards hardness or DR/adamantine. DR/bludgeoning is more for bony undead. Though this AP is more diverse in creature types than you might expect.
On the whole UnRogue is fine for this AP. Dex-oriented AC stands up better against firearm style attacks than heavy armor.
1) I know there's not a hard rule about it, but the other player for Iron Gods was GM for S&S and he ruled that it wouldn't work during that campaign. I do not know if that houserule will stick around for this one too so.
2) I was thinking about Improved Initiative, although I was under the impression that Darts counted as ammunition as they are listed as such on the PFSRD. Turns out that is incorrect. Bummer.
3) As a Scavenger Rogue I get Technologist for free.
4) I was not aware that Hardness was a thing, although I should've guessed from the Robot Slayer ability of Scavenger. Good to know.
Touch AC was one of the reasons I was considering this class. Besides Monks they have one of the best thanks to built-in Dexterity focus.
The advantage of rogues in Iron Gods is the many ways Disable Device helps the party. Trap-finding sometimes matters, too. This adventure path has lots of devices. Technologist is a good call. Since Lark is an associate of Khonnir Baine, the Local Ties campaign trait would also be appropriate.
The end of Lark's backstory conflicts with the events of the plot hook to Fires of Creation. One day, the violet-flamed torch that mysteriouly burns at the top of Black Hill, and is the main source of income for the town of Torch, went out. The townsfolk decided to investigate the underwater caves from Weeping Pond that went into Black Hill, to find the cause of the torch's failure and restore it. Five expeditions went under the hill. Only the third expedition, led by Khonnir Baine, returned. The fifth expedition, also led by Khonnir Baine, did not return.
While it is possible that Khonnir Baine was considering exploring under Black Hill before the torch went out, Lark would have already passed up two opportunities to accompany Khonnir Baine under the hill in the standard plot hook. Maybe your GM will agree that Lark was in the third expedition, but was left out of the fifth because he was recovering from severe frostbite.
4) I'm worried about whether I'll regret choosing a Piercing weapon for this campaign, as my gut is telling me mechanical creatures probably have some form of DR/BludgeoningOne mechanic that ought to be well known to any adventurer in Numeria, but is not well known to players, is that robots have Hardness. That is like DR/adamantine, except it reduces energy damage, too. That is the weakness of Lark's low damage, but sufficiently high sneak attack damage could overcome it. Adamantine weapons are sold in Torch, but they are very expensive. This is a significant difficulty for all classes.
1) Rules-wise there's nothing against power-attacking while doing Dex to damage. In this AP you'll run into Hardness (although many enemies...
Technologist is a bonus feat for Scavenger rogues, so I don't actually have to take it as a feat.
I skimmed over the Player's Guide last night while writing this up, didn't notice the discrepancy. I'll use your suggested fix.
Even up against Hardness 5 most level 1 characters would crumble. Is this going to be an issue early on? Once I get 2-handed Dex-to-Damage I should be on much better footing (expected 2d4+6 or 7 by Level 3 with this build).
One of our houserules is that anyone who qualifies for Power Attack, Piranha Strike, or Deadly Aim gets the feat for free since they're basically must-haves for every damage-dealing martial. Feat sinks are not fun.
One suggestion: do not plan ahead too much, it is unique campaign where options provided by particular modules are so good that you may consider different choices that usual copy-paste variation of most effective builds.
I figured I'd end up finding a cool gun I'd end up wanting to use eventually, and the high DEX helps with that. I'm planning ahead for the Estoc because it's one of the few Dex-friendly weapons in the game that can be 2-handed, and if I end up finding something better later down the road I could pick it for my later Finesse Training choices.
The build is currently mutable as we aren't even close to starting - I just like to have these things figured out ahead of time so I can work on the backstory without worrying about the character's build. I plan a few levels ahead but ultimately there aren't any feat trees I really want (Swordplay Style would be cool but hard to justify on this character).
A few thoughts:
If your ranged attack is going to be opening shot then immediately switch to melee, consider using crossbow for the harder hit.
In fact, if your party doesn't have a Gunslinger or at least another DEX/Ranged character, you might want to reserve a future Feat for Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearm) since that covers a lot of tech weapons.
For Rogues in general Two Weapon Fighting is nice because the more chances to apply Sneak Attack damage the better, but given Iron Gods I see the appeal of the single hard hit.
I agree that Local Ties (Disable Device) can cover for Technologist for a while (the party I'm DMing through Iron Gods has a Slayer who is covering the trap duty, and that's what he did).
I was under the impression that Darts were ammunition at the time, but then reality struck and ruined it. The ranged weapon needs to be one I can use as a backup weapon in the event that we encounter something at range or flying. Crossbows are cool but without the Rapid Reload feat I can't rely on them as ranged weapons for anything more than the opening shot.
I don't know anything about the other party members yet, but since EWP (firearms) is easily accessible as a Rogue talent and I don't have any talents chosen save for the Level 2 Combat Trick (EWP: Estoc) it wouldn't be hard to work in.
TWF seems like a good choice at first but Rogues already have a low attack bonus. It also decreases mobility, has lower static damage, and is affected twice for Hardness and DR until I can get multiple special quality weapons. Plus it would be one more weapon to spend money on. That being said, I could see myself using it later in the campaign after Debilitating Injury comes online. The Estoc is already very versatile as a weapon thanks to the 1H and 2H finesse so it could make a good mainhand weapon if I do try it out later.
Anyone else have advice? It's not time-sensitive by any means.