| Aaronar |
Our 2nd level party was attacked by an Ubashki swarm. Three party members were all huddled up and the swarm covered them all. That particular swarm has an attack bonus listed for its swarm attack so we figured the damage wasn't automatic. The shaman has a familiar with the Protector archetype, and has it secured in a Familiar Satchel. He used its Loyal Bodyguard ability to gain an AC bonus against the swarm attack, then said that since it has total concealment inside its satchel the swarm couldn't attack it. My issue comes from using that ability while essentially encased in a sealed box. I think he was completely off about the total concealment having any effect on the swarms attack but that's a separate issue. I'm more concerned about gaining what is essentially a semi permanent +2 AC from a bodyguard trapped in an enclosed space. Am I trying to apply too much real world logic to this since it is a fantasy game?
I don't like restricting or hindering the survivability of the party but if we're trying to adhere to a set of rules I want to make sure they're understood and applied correctly.
| Mark Seifter Designer |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Our 2nd level party was attacked by an Ubashki swarm. Three party members were all huddled up and the swarm covered them all. That particular swarm has an attack bonus listed for its swarm attack so we figured the damage wasn't automatic. The shaman has a familiar with the Protector archetype, and has it secured in a Familiar Satchel. He used its Loyal Bodyguard ability to gain an AC bonus against the swarm attack, then said that since it has total concealment inside its satchel the swarm couldn't attack it. My issue comes from using that ability while essentially encased in a sealed box. I think he was completely off about the total concealment having any effect on the swarms attack but that's a separate issue. I'm more concerned about gaining what is essentially a semi permanent +2 AC from a bodyguard trapped in an enclosed space. Am I trying to apply too much real world logic to this since it is a fantasy game?
I don't like restricting or hindering the survivability of the party but if we're trying to adhere to a set of rules I want to make sure they're understood and applied correctly.
If the familiar doesn't have line of effect to anything, it's going to be tough for it to use its abilities. It might potentially manage it while taking at least some cover, though.
| Saethori |
First, the Ubashki swarm is missing enough of its entry that I think the attack bonus on the swarm attack is a mistake. You should treat it as automatic like all swarms.
Second, the familiar satchel provides total cover, not concealment. It's not relevant here, but it can be.
Finally, if the familiar is in a box that's able to protect it from the swarm, then it definitely also cannot reach its master to use any protective abilities. Either it's in the box or it's not in the box. Familiars of wizards named Schrodinger included.
CBDunkerson
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I think he was completely off about the total concealment having any effect on the swarms attack but that's a separate issue. I'm more concerned about gaining what is essentially a semi permanent +2 AC from a bodyguard trapped in an enclosed space.
Total concealment (e.g. invisibility, the inability to SEE the target) likely wouldn't do anything to stop a swarm's attack, but total cover (e.g. sphere of force, the inability to HIT the target) would. A familiar inside a satchel would have BOTH of those conditions.
That being said, the +2 to AC provided by a protector familiar is due to the bodyguard feat... which is a mundane ability to disrupt incoming attacks. It isn't going to be able to do that from inside a satchel.
Ascalaphus
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Protector familiars have language saying that (unlike normal for Aid Another/Bodyguard) they don't have to be able to reach the enemy. Useful, since most familiars have Reach 0ft.
Instead, the familiar has to be in its master's square. I interpret that as the familiar needing to be able to reach its master instead of the enemy; if the cat is in the bag it can't guard.
| FiliDestro |
If the familiar doesn't have line of effect to anything, it's going to be tough for it to use its abilities. It might potentially manage it while taking at least some cover, though.
I'm trying to understand what "line of effect" is with this ability. I guess my question is does it work with ranged attacks? The familiar can not reach a melee enemy just like it can't reach a ranged enemy, so if the familiar can see the enemy and is in the same square as it's master, then it can use the ability?
Now that I look, Aid Another says "In melee combat...", so I am guessing that is the caveat?