Easy question: a cleric needs two hands free for somatic e DF. One hand to hold the FD and one hand to do the movement?
Thank you
Not specified. It could just as easily be said that the somatic and verbal components come first and the divine focus is presented afterward.
Not specified. It could just as easily be said that the somatic and verbal components come first and the divine focus is presented afterward.
I think this isn't possible because to take or leave something is an action itself.
My question come from the statement that for somatic a caster needs a hand free so I wonder if the FD in hand still keeps his hand free or not.
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I've always understood that you need one hand for any casting requiring somatic, material and/or (divine) focus components. For all I know, the somatic component includes waving your crucifix in people's faces.
On a rules level, somatic components explicitly require a free hand, while that rule isn't there for material and focus components. However, the grappling rules mention that you can only use material components while grappled if you have them in hand.
Clerics are often using shields. It may take a bit of juggling if they also use a weapon, but they could put the weapon in their shield hand for a moment, make gestures, hold up the holy symbol around their neck, then grab hold of their weapon again.
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Not specified. It could just as easily be said that the somatic and verbal components come first and the divine focus is presented afterward.I think this isn't possible because to take or leave something is an action itself.
My question come from the statement that for somatic a caster needs a hand free so I wonder if the FD in hand still keeps his hand free or not.
'Preparing' material, focus, or divine focus components is a free action, and no requirement is given for having a free hand (see Cast a Spell, under Combat).
My understanding of that is that you must possess something that is a divine focus, but you don't have to do anything with it that takes a hand or an action. It's reasonable to say it should be visible, but the rules don't seem to require that. There are magic items that act as a divine focus, such as the Cassock of the Clergy. This means that requiring you to take it off and hold it in your hand to use it would be absurd.
Note that you can only transfer your weapon to your shield hand with a buckler or light shield.
Channeling does require you to 'present' your holy symbol, which implies holding it. This makes having your shield or weapon count as a holy symbol valuable.
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On a rules level, somatic components explicitly require a free hand, while that rule isn't there for material and focus components. However, the grappling rules mention that you can only use material components while grappled if you have them in hand....
That clears everything! Somatic and materials are two different things, you can use materials if you have them in your hand already but you can't move your hands for somatic gestures.
By raw my opinion is: one hand free for somatic and one hand for M/FD it means both hands have to be free to cast a spell, of course feat like somatic weapon really come in "handy"
You can get your holy symbol tattooed or as a birthmark. It's a bit of a tradeoff; you don't need to worry about sundering and such, but it can be socially inconvenient/during infiltrations.
Yes but what about the "manipulate" thing? you need to manipulate the holy symbol. It's stated in the manual.
Manipulate :To move, arrange, operate, or control by the hands or another body part or by mechanical means, especially in a skillful manner: She manipulated the lights to get just the effect she wanted. See Synonyms at handle.And if the holy symbol is a tattooed for example on his forehead because channel energy is an explosion it dose not make turns and is subject to cover so those behind the cleric can't get any heal, can they? or if a you cast a ray from your holy symbol that is a scar on your hand you have to drop everything you are holding in that hand first? I wonder
Not specified. It could just as easily be said that the somatic and verbal components come first and the divine focus is presented afterward.I think this isn't possible because to take or leave something is an action itself.
My question come from the statement that for somatic a caster needs a hand free so I wonder if the FD in hand still keeps his hand free or not.
'Preparing' material, focus, or divine focus components is a free action, and no requirement is given for having a free hand (see Cast a Spell, under Combat).
My understanding of that is that you must possess something that is a divine focus, but you don't have to do anything with it that takes a hand or an action. It's reasonable to say it should be visible, but the rules don't seem to require that. There are magic items that act as a divine focus, such as the Cassock of the Clergy. This means that requiring you to take it off and hold it in your hand to use it would be absurd.
Note that you can only transfer your weapon to your shield hand with a buckler or light shield.
Channeling does require you to 'present' your holy symbol, which implies holding it. This makes having your shield or weapon count as a holy symbol valuable.
You are right but takes no time because it's part of the casting but it's all done almost simultaneously somatic verbal and material/F/FD. when more elements come in to play the casting time is quite longer. for a standard action of around 3 seconds you speak move your hands and draw your materials or F/DF at same time you don't take something with one hand than leave it and take something else. My humble opinion is : material or FD one hand, somatic another hand that's it
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You're making this harder than necessary. Manipulation is intentionally vague. If you have a holy symbol on your forehead or hand, just look in the direction or make gestures where you want to cast. As for channeling, since there's no facing rules in PF, you're looking in all directions at once. You can not use it to exclude enemies (take the feat) but you also don't need special contortions to include all your friends.
You're making this harder than necessary. Manipulation is intentionally vague. If you have a holy symbol on your forehead or hand, just look in the direction or make gestures where you want to cast. As for channeling, since there's no facing rules in PF, you're looking in all directions at once. You can not use it to exclude enemies (take the feat) but you also don't need special contortions to include all your friends.
I don't know.....I'm trying to make it right....channeling is explosion no doubt. Explosion if you are behind a wall or a corner can't get you no doubt in that too.
so if you channel energy you show your symbol as a torch to be sure to cover all the space around you. Do you think I am wrong?Manipulation is a specific word I can't tell why you think it's vague. I posted the definition and to me it is clear. It is not open to interpretation.
You're making this harder than necessary. Manipulation is intentionally vague. If you have a holy symbol on your forehead or hand, just look in the direction or make gestures where you want to cast. As for channeling, since there's no facing rules in PF, you're looking in all directions at once. You can not use it to exclude enemies (take the feat) but you also don't need special contortions to include all your friends.
I'm not saying you can't have a holy symbol tattooed on your forehead but if you do so you must have all the people you want to heal in front of you.
But still.... there's the manipulate question hehehe
Put the holy symbol on your shield.
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"To cast a spell, you must be able to ... manipulate the material components or focus (if any)"
A divine focus component is not a focus component.
Additionally, you must be able to manipulate the focus component. Whether you need to do so is part of the individual spell description "Specifics for material and focus components are given at the end of the descriptive text."
If you want to impose an extra hardship on divine casters in your game, you can of course do so, but I've never seen it played that way anywhere else.
"To cast a spell, you must be able to ... manipulate the material components or focus (if any)"
A divine focus component is not a focus component.
Additionally, you must be able to manipulate the focus component. Whether you need to do so is part of the individual spell description "Specifics for material and focus components are given at the end of the descriptive text."
If you want to impose an extra hardship on divine casters in your game, you can of course do so, but I've never seen it played that way anywhere else.
It's a good point...and I don't want make it harder than it should be I just want to make it right. We play at the highest level of reality. My bard actually have composed specific songs for his buffs
Anyway I have really appreciated your cooperation and patience
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It's a good point...and I don't want make it harder than it should be I just want to make it right. We play at the highest level of reality. My bard actually have composed specific songs for his buffs
Anyway I have really appreciated your cooperation and patience
Just bear in mind that a cleric with a shield and a weapon drawn would have to spend (a maximum of) 5 actions to cast a spell if you require both hands free, as opposed to (a minimum of) 1 (if it were a light shield).
Just bear in mind that a cleric with a shield and a weapon drawn would have to spend (a maximum of) 5 actions to cast a spell if you require both hands free, as opposed to (a minimum of) 1 (if it were a light shield).It's a good point...and I don't want make it harder than it should be I just want to make it right. We play at the highest level of reality. My bard actually have composed specific songs for his buffs
Anyway I have really appreciated your cooperation and patience
light shield and somatic weapon should work fine
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You're making this harder than necessary. Manipulation is intentionally vague. If you have a holy symbol on your forehead or hand, just look in the direction or make gestures where you want to cast. As for channeling, since there's no facing rules in PF, you're looking in all directions at once. You can not use it to exclude enemies (take the feat) but you also don't need special contortions to include all your friends.I don't know.....I'm trying to make it right....channeling is explosion no doubt. Explosion if you are behind a wall or a corner can't get you no doubt in that too.
so if you channel energy you show your symbol as a torch to be sure to cover all the space around you. Do you think I am wrong?
Manipulation is a specific word I can't tell why you think it's vague. I posted the definition and to me it is clear. It is not open to interpretation.
Well, it's a Burst. Bursts are normally not stopped by soft cover (like creatures), only hard cover (walls). You also can't turn Channel Energy into a cone by fondling a holy symbol half-hidden by a cloak.
Be careful when introducing new rules because of "realism" - it often has bad unforeseen side effects and rarely actually produces more fun.