Order of the First Law

[Nordlaw]

I am curious how others interpret this Cavalier Order.

I have a player in my game that has made a character using this, and I have several questions as to how I am supposed to determine what he can and can't do in regards to receiving healing and buffs, and from what sources.

Our primary healer is a Shaman, which technically uses natural spirits, as opposed to gods, however, they are still listed as divine spell casters.

With this information, can the OotFL Cavalier receive all healing and buffs? Or, because Shamans are still considered a divine caster would you rule they are unable to receive any healing and buffs.

Then I am curious about channel energy, the Shaman took the Life spirit, and the Witch Doctor archetype, is this considered another source of divine energy, or is it slightly different than spells, considering its supernatural and not spell like?

"Cavaliers belonging to the order of the First Law are dedicated to hunting down anyone practicing, preaching, or otherwise facilitating a religion."

Does that mean they wouldn't even group with a Cleric? How about Shamans? Druids? Can they take quests or work for any divine caster, if they know they are as such? Would a Cavalier of this order actively try to stop your Cleric/Shaman/Druid from healing others in your party?

Another observation that was made at my table is that practicing the faith is not the same as preaching the faith, so, does that allow the Cavalier to party with a Cleric/Shaman as long as they do not force their beliefs upon the Cavalier and anyone else around them, but its ok for them to heal and buff other people?

Thoughts?

[GM Rednal]

The quote you gave pretty much says it all. If they see someone practicing the religion, they're dedicated to hunting them down. Yes, that means they would go against their allies. That makes this a relatively bad choice for most groups, really. XD

Note that it's not simply "they must reject divine aid". The Order has them actively dedicated to hunting divine casters.

(For what it's worth, though, I suppose they might make a distinction between "natural" magic and divine magic. So there's that.)

[Saethori]

Worship of nature spirits is still worship, and it's still considered a religion in many senses.

In addition, druids and shamans may choose to worship actual nature deities, rather than nature itself.

The cavalier won't like them.

[Whack-a-Rogue]

Well, if set on Golarion, having that Order means your player is a member of the Pure Legion. This comes from the nation of Rahadoum, where ALL religion is illegal. According to lore, they even go so far as to search visitors for holy symbols. In other words, they're not just "anti divine caster," they're against the worship of ANYTHING. In addition to what the others have said, your Cavalier won't like spellcasting Rangers, Paladins, or even Fighters who worship a deity.

[Nordlaw]

I agree with everything said so far, and this is actually how I interpreted the order to be, but I wanted to bring the points of view of some of my players to the discussion to see if I was way off base, or if others shared my opinions.

Anyone out there have an argument or example of how this is not a completely disruptive and difficult choice of a character to bring to a table of a good aligned campaign?

[GM Rednal]

It would depend on the campaign. For example, a non-religious campaign. Maybe a party with no divine casters, set in Cheliax or something. The character could say that worshiping evil is obviously insane, for example, and that other faiths are obviously complicit by allowing it to continue instead of doing everything they can to stop it. Such a character might make a very good rebel.

Of course, if it's a home game, you could easily refluff it to anything you want. For example, maybe they only hunt down people facilitating an evil religion. Their "Rejection of Faith" ability could be reflavored to a sort of asceticism, where they try to remain free of all divine influence so evil can't pretend to be good and sink hooks into them that way.

Unchanged, though... it's definitely one of the more disruptive choices. Notably, there are actual mechanical penalties for not living up to their edicts.

[Whack-a-Rogue]

Not all options are intended for PCs. This particularOorder is banned in PFS, for example. Left as-is, it's only usable in a specific type of campaign, like Rednal said.

[Gulthor]

So, this is interesting.

Edicts wrote:

The cavalier must strive to protect atheists and all those who reject the gods. He must never have a patron deity or willingly serve agents of the divine. He must protect the common folk from suffering due to the actions of divine agents.

Rejection of Faith (Ex) wrote:

At 2nd level, the cavalier must refuse all divine magic, including helpful effects or spells. As long as he has not benefited from divine magic in the past 24 hours, he receives a +2 morale bonus on one saving throw of his choice. Each day he can change the saving throw to which this bonus applies.

Paying close attention to these benefits, there's nothing actually barring a OotFL Cavalier from adventuring with divine characters. Working side-by-side isn't the same as serving, and the focus is on protecting others from oppressive divine agents - that may not necessarily be in opposition with divine party members. Divine party members that don't serve gods should be tolerated without too much bother - in fact, they could be one of the very atheists that they're sworn to protect.

In addition, the Rejection of Faith benefit is minor enough that it shouldn't be catastrophic if you lose it.

Channel Energy is almost certainly a divine magical effect, however, so I think it's going to shut it off from the day.

[Diego Rossi]

Classic example of the problem of reading D20PFSRD without the actual book.

People of the sands wrote:

Order of the First Law

Cavaliers belonging to the order of the First Law are dedicated to hunting down anyone practicing, preaching, or otherwise facilitating religion in Rahadoum.
Edicts: The cavalier must strive to protect atheists and all those who reject the gods. He must never have a patron deity or willingly serve agents of the divine. He must protect the common folk from suffering due to the actions of divine agents.

So, in Rahadoum, the cavalier if required by his order to hunt down those "practicing, preaching, or otherwise facilitating religion".

Outside it he " must never have a patron deity or willingly serve agents of the divine" so he can't accept quests from divine magic users.
His second level ability will stop functioning for 24 hours if he benefit from any divine magic, effects included. That should include channeling, a divine supernatural effect.
Oracles, druids etc. are all divine casters, so all are included in the limitation.

Keeping that in mind the character is, barely, playable together with a divine spellcaster, if he is outside of Rahadoum.
If the group like to role play they will have some trouble explaining why a divine spellcastger and this guy are working together, and that could generate some friction in the group, but it can be done.

Alternatively, you can play a group without a divine spellcaster. A witch can cast most of the important spells provided by a divine spellcaster and a bard or alchemist can help too.

The biggest problem will be the restoration spell, but the cavalier could buy it from an alchemist with the infusion ability.

Note that in Golarion you can't have a cleric without a religion, and most other divine characters are strongly suggested to select a divine patron or religious faith.