Wondrous Item Pricing Question

[Fruian Thistlefoot]

So I'm having a bit of Trouble Pricing a Variant Robes of the Archmagi and need help figuring out the cost of the changes I wanted to make.

Here are the Changes I'd Like to make:

Lose the Spell Resistance 18 For +6 to INT (wouldn't mind Price for +4 as well)
Lose the +5 Armor for +1 luck bonus on saving throws, ability checks, and skill checks.

I'm confused on the Price of Spell Resistance 18 cost as an Item. I see Spell resist 17, 19, and 21...but not 18.

The Luckstone Price should be Less than that of +5 AC by about 2,500gp difference I believe?

Any help from you more math inclined folks? Also share your Formula please.

If this should be In House Rules section or some other section as IDK what it truly falls under then flag it for a move.

Thank You.

[ArtlessKnave]

There is a problem with how the Robe of the Archmagi is priced to begin with. Because the robes only work for characters of a specific alignment and class, it skews the price of the item down a lot. So I will try to calculate it all out as if it were an item that could be used by anyone.

Keep in mind that according to the magic item creation rules, any additional property adds 50% to that additional properties base cost.

Multiple Different Abilities::

Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function are not similar, and their values are simply added together to determine the cost. For items that take up a space on a character's body, each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price.

Formulas can be found: Here

So lets start with the first ability on the list and work our way down:

+5 armor bonus to AC: Bonus squared (5^2) × 1,000 gp = 25,000gp

Spell Resistance 18: (((18-12)*10,000gp)*(1.5)) = 90,000gp

+4 Resistance bonus to all saves: ((4^2)*(1,000))*(1.5) = 24,000gp

+2 enhancement bonus on Caster Level checks to overcome Spell Resistance: This isn't listed so I will wing it using Save Bonus other.
((2^2)*(2,000))*(1.5) = 12,000gp

Total: 151,000gp

Now, because only a limited selection of classes and alignments can use one of these, lets cut the price in half: 151,000/2 = 75,500gp.

This is pretty close to the actual purchase price listed at 75,000gp. I would say this gives us a good metric on creating your custom version, so lets do some substitution!

+5 AC replaced with +1 to all saves ability and skill checks: 20,000gp (as per stone of good luck)

Replacing 18-SR with +6 INT: ((6^2)*(1,000))*(1.5) = 54,000gp

+4 Resistance bonus to all saves: ((4^2)*(1,000))*(1.5) = 24,000gp

+2 enhancement bonus on Caster Level checks to overcome Spell Resistance: This isn't listed so I will wing it using Save Bonus other.
((2^2)*(2,000))*(1.5) = 12,000gp

Total: 110,000gp/2 = 55,000gp to buy this modified version of the robes.

Also, this should answer your question about the pricing for different SR values. In case you missed it, it is 10,000 gp per point over SR 12; SR 13 minimum

I hope this helps.

[ryric]

I wouldn't give the class/race/alignment restriction discount to custom items; in essence, you're making an item that is more desirable to the target user(wizards) so it should be more expensive, not less. I like ArtlessKnave's breakdown but I wouldn't halve it at the end and leave it at 110000gp.

[Fruian Thistlefoot]

First off Artless Thank you....

ArtlessKnave wrote:

So lets start with the first ability on the list and work our way down:

+5 armor bonus to AC: Bonus squared (5^2) × 1,000 gp = 25,000gp

Spell Resistance 18: (((18-12)*10,000gp)*(1.5)) = 90,000gp

+4 Resistance bonus to all saves: ((4^2)*(1,000))*(1.5) = 24,000gp

+2 enhancement bonus on Caster Level checks to overcome Spell Resistance: This isn't listed so I will wing it using Save Bonus other.
((2^2)*(2,000))*(1.5) = 12,000gp

Total: 151,000gp

Now, because only a limited selection of classes and alignments can use one of these, lets cut the price in half: 151,000/2 = 75,500gp.

This is pretty close to the actual purchase price listed at 75,000gp. I would say this gives us a good metric on creating your custom version, so lets do some substitution!

+5 AC replaced with +1 to all saves ability and skill checks: 20,000gp (as per stone of good luck)

Replacing 18-SR with +6 INT: ((6^2)*(1,000))*(1.5) = 54,000gp

+4 Resistance bonus to all saves: ((4^2)*(1,000))*(1.5) = 24,000gp

+2 enhancement bonus on Caster Level checks to overcome Spell Resistance: This isn't listed so I will...

Would not the +6 Int Increase be the Base item costing more than the Luckstone effect? 36,000>20,000?

+6 Int = 36,000gp
+1 Luck Bonus on saving throws, ability checks, and skill checks = 20,000*1.5= 30,000
+4 Resistance on saves = ((4^2)*(1,000))*(1.5) = 24,000gp
+2 Enhancement to Overcome SR= ((2^2)*(2,000))*(1.5) = 12,000gp

So 102,000 total

Now -25% For Alignment Restrictions and -25% for Arcane Caster Restrictions (I think 3.5 was -30% for each. But not sure on Pathfinder rules)

102,000/2= 51,000gp for the Variant Robes of the Archmagi.

Ryric wrote:

I wouldn't give the class/race/alignment restriction discount to custom items; in essence, you're making an item that is more desirable to the target user(wizards) so it should be more expensive, not less. I like ArtlessKnave's breakdown but I wouldn't halve it at the end and leave it at 110000gp.

But that is Exactly why the robes were create was it not? FOR only Wizards of X alignment. Is that also not the point of Item Creation feats in the game? Is this a Personal opinion or backed by rules?

[ryric]

Item creation feats exist so you can create the items in the book. Custom items all require GM approval. The custom item rules exist so that GMs can design unique treasure, not so that players can shuffle around abilities to make perfect items.

A restriction that doesn't actually inhibit the PC shouldn't be any cheaper for them.

The first step in pricing a custom item is to compare it to an existing item. Your luckstone/+6 Int version of the robes is, generally, better than the book version. So it should cost more.

[Chess Pwn]

Gosh, it's too bad that this +20 chainshirt of immense hiding and sneak attack with +6 dex "meant for Bob only" can only be worn by character's who's player name is Bob. I'd have loved to wear this, oh well, here you go Bob, it's all yours and it only cost 100GP because of how limited it is for characters.

[Firewarrior44]

Ultimate Campaign wrote:

If you want to create an entirely new type of item (such as a ring that allows you to cast acid arrow three times per day) or add properties to an existing item (such as adding the flaming property to a holy avenger), the process is more complex and requires discussion and cooperation between you and the GM.

CRB wrote:

Not all items adhere to these formulas. First and foremost, these few formulas aren't enough to truly gauge the exact differences between items. The price of a magic item may be modified based on its actual worth. The formulas only provide a starting point. The pricing of scrolls assumes that, whenever possible, a wizard or cleric created it. Potions and wands follow the formulas exactly. Staves follow the formulas closely, and other items require at least some judgment calls.

GM get's final say over all custom magic items. As they should, it's incredibly easy to break Custom item crafting by abusing spell loopholes and whatnot.

But as others have also pointed out a drawback that doesn't impact you isn't a drawback.

[Dave Justus]

I definitely agree that reduced price for description should only be available to existing items and GM creations, not PC designed items. The GM could choose to add a discount to a player item for a restriction, but shouldn't feel required too. Other than for selling the item later, a restriction that matches the PC is actually a benefit, if only 'Brutus the Brute' can use his sword of smiting it is not going to be used against him and less likely to be stolen.

I also agree that the variant are more powerful than the original (the original math comes cheaper mostly because the system way overprices spell resistance.)

100k seems fair for the item without restrictions, if in my campaign I am assuming that regular Robes of the Archemage of any desired flavor can be purchases freely, and the player wants the same feel for these I would probably consider knocking 10% off the price to make that happen, so theses would be 90k and the regular ones 75k which seems pretty fair.

I certainly do like to have players make custom items, I think that adds a lot of fun, but the GM has to make sure that balance is preserved.

[Fruian Thistlefoot]

I HAVE GM APPROVAL or I would not ask.

So before this Deteriorates

As long as I have a solid Formula and/or a Similar item in Price I have approval. If I was willy nilly just throwing out Prices with no reason behind it I would get a NO. But if I present it in a manner like Artless posted then I am most likely going to be approved.